TEACH vs. DMCA Showdown Looming 136
TVmisGuided writes "A copyright showdown between the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) and the Teach (Technology Education and Copyright Harmonization) Act is brewing that will have serious implications on the future of higher education on-line. The article
from Chronicle.com spells out the upcoming brouhaha. IMO, this will be one of the strongest litmus tests of the DMCA since it was signed into law in the U.S."
Article text (Score:2, Informative)
A group representing college media centers is warning the
U.S. Copyright Office about a possible conflict between two federal
laws, one meant to limit electronic access to copyrighted material and
the other designed to broaden access to the same material for online
education.
At issue are the Technology Education and Copyright
Harmonization Act and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The first
measure is known as the Teach Act and was signed into law in November.
It amended copyright law to allow college inst
How many... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How many... (Score:2)
Personally I say "Burn Baby Burn!"
Re:How many... (Score:2, Insightful)
Im conufsed it sounds like your saying that it is only a threat? If the DMCA is not dismantled then the software industry is in deep.
Re:How many... (Score:1)
My point was that the DMCA has been mainly used as a threat over the last few years especially this last year. Look at what HP did for example? All they did was threaten with a DMCA lawsuit and the company they were attacking stopped what they were doing (forget the details but it was a slashdot story a few months ago).
It's simply too broad and doesn't protect what the founders "claimed" it would.
Re:How many... (Score:1)
Re:How many... (Score:2)
Once Microsoft finishes off their 'secure OS' design, they're going to declare Linux an 'circumventing technology' and get it declared illegal.
Re:How many... (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm sure the dept of Homeland Security would simply love to wipe that section out, and what better way to do it than use existing, nonconflicting law?
Re:How many... (Score:1)
And...?
*shrug*
The USA doesn't have a monopoly on cryptographers, mathematicians or programmers, or on students or hobbyists interested in any of the above.
As the field of "permitted research" in the USA becomes more and more restricted, more and more research and development will simply be done
Re:How many... (Score:1)
to bad .. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:to bad .. (Score:2)
Re:to bad .. (Score:1)
Re:to bad .. (Score:2)
Re:DMCA applied to your thoughts (Score:1)
Your brain has performed an illegal operation
Press OK to self-terminate
What's new? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What's new? (Score:3, Funny)
Because the Technology Education and Copyright Harmonization has a much cooler acronym.
Oh I don't know about that... (Score:5, Funny)
Don't you pirate those warez,
I said Young man,
The industry cares,
It's funt to comply with...
THE D-M-C-A!
Re:Oh I don't know about that... (Score:1)
-uso.
Re:Oh I don't know about that... (Score:2)
downloaded your song,
and listened for free,
oooh baby, baby,
you think I'm a schmuck,
that I'll pay 20 bucks.
I'm not that gullible.
Re:What's new? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's important if it (or any of the others) go to a high enough court that it can recognize how poorly written the DMCA is and do something to get rid of it. The clearer-cut the collision or violation, the more likely it is to illustrate the inanity of the DMCA and to help us get rid of it.
With this Supreme Court? (Score:3, Interesting)
All hope left is for them to step down and be replaced.
Or that the law makers come to their senses.
Or that the rest of the World replace the Berne Convention.
Argh!
Re:With this Supreme Court? (Score:2)
Because the US really, really respects the opinion of the rest of the World.
Berne Convention protects rest of World from Congr (Score:1)
Well we were able to found the International Criminal Court [icc-cpi.int] without much backing from the U.S.
The Berne Convention [wipo.int] has clauses [wipo.int] that allow parties to denounce [m-w.com] (withdraw) from it. They could start up a new collective copyright protection scheme that didn't involve the U.S.A. May be a bit of a pipe dream.
But does anybody know if the present Berne Convention makes it possible to drop works that are still protected in the U.S. in
Best solution - civil disobedience (Score:4, Interesting)
There is a problem with this. The DMCA is just a symptom of trying to impose copyrights in the information age. If we don't get to the source of the problem, copyrights, we will forever be providing a revenue stream to those determined to impose controll over all information we use.
Re:Best solution - civil disobedience (Score:2)
A very insightful statement. But don't stop there! Let's not forget idiotic software and business model patents while we're at it.
Like him or not, RMS has a very good approach when it comes to educating others about these issues: simply refuse to disc
Re:Best solution - civil disobedience (Score:2)
Since you're suggesting a correction to what you believe is a flawed belief, I'll assume that you're not a t
So what if they collide? (Score:1)
As far as I know, the only way for a federal law to be illegal is for it to be unconstitutional. There doesn't seem to be any constitutional challenge here.
Suppose that it is proven in court that the DMCA and TEACH do collide. So what? The result would be a ruling on what happens where the DMCA's restrictions intersect TEACH's liberalizations. The best we could hope for is a clarification stating that copy-protection circumvention is explicitly allowed for instructional use, which seems to be TEACH'
Re:What's new? (Score:2)
Re:What's new? (Score:5, Insightful)
TEACH says "X is permitted".
DMCA says "Doing Y in order to get X is prohibited".
Think of placing a piece of information in a locked box. The issue is that TEACH allows them to use the information for their classes, but DMCA says they are not allowed to unlock the box.
Re:What's new? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What's new? (Score:1)
Why the hell is this "a bruhaha showdown"? (Score:4, Insightful)
It won't be a bruhaha and it's just a false hope. (Score:2)
Re:Why the hell is this "a bruhaha showdown"? (Score:1)
Every challenge to the DMCA should be a major battle. It is backed by corporate autoritarianism and stands against the principles of fair use (among other things) that one would expect in a "free" country.
My grandfather fought against Nazi totalitarian federalism in WW II.
DMCA, PATRIOT (I & II), SSSCA, the Anti-Terrorism Act of 1995... these aren't the principles that he fought to defend.
DMCA abuse (Score:1)
I hope it goes down in a big flaming ball of greasy smoke. With no survivors.
More about the teach act (Score:4, Informative)
Only for educators. . . (Score:2, Insightful)
McD
Re:Only for educators. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
Bear in mind.. the DMCA was passed, not as an enforcement tool for the RIAA and MPAA, but as protection for virtually all vendors of copyrighted material, and producers of commercial products that dont fall under patent or copyright areas.
The use of it as a strongarm tactic is just a by-product of what was intended to be (and should be, basically) a just and good law. But like many things, it was worded too vaguely, and unfortunately, the number of lawyers who are willing to work for nearly nothing to challenge these things is small (but dedicated and laudible) compared to the number who smell blood in the water and are on corporate retainers.
Maeryk
Oh, Come ON!! (Score:2)
You're kidding, right? You're not that naive, are you? The DMCA benefits NOBODY but the **AA. All it does is criminalize the digitization of media currently produced, which means that companies represented by **AA don't have to modify their business plans.
The DMCA was passed to put the US in compliance with the WIPO treaties. These treaties were crea
Re:Oh, Come ON!! (Score:4, Interesting)
No, Im not. It also protects content not owned by the MPAA and the RIAA. Keep that in mind. Also keep in mind, that in a "perfect world" no-one would be all pissed, because NO ONE WOULD BE PIRATING THIS STUFF!.
The DMCA was passed to put the US in compliance with the WIPO treaties. These treaties were created expressly to combat the use of digital technologies that threaten current big business.
Please provide me with an example (either real or theoretical) where anyone else needs or could use the DMCA instead of the remaining existing copyright law.
You answer your own question there. It was to put us in complaince.. regular old US copyright law for a couple of reasons didnt meet "international" criteria. (dont get me started on how I dont care if it did or not).
Basically, the majority of the people I see bitching about the DMCA are those who want to freely pirate and rip media. Now, fair use aside, my suggestion to them is A) pay for what they want, or B) shut the hell up.
I agree fair use needs some work.. but then again, "fair use" is confusing in and of itself. If a school wants to use clips of "gangs of new york" to illustrate points during a class on the history of the bowery, etc, more power to em. Fair Use as far as I'm concerned. However, if it wants to play that movie in the auditorium, and charge students 2 bucks a head to see it, that is _not_ fair use. So saying "schools are paying to use it" is not clear enough.
Maeryk
Re:Oh, Come ON!! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Oh, Come ON!! (Score:2)
I thought there was a free, available, DVD player for linux now?
Maeryk
Re:Oh, Come ON!! (Score:3, Insightful)
If I buy a book with a lock on it I have a right to pick/break/remove that lock to access the contents of the book. I do not require a key from the publisher nor their consent to read the book under the stipulation that I must possess the original key. Even if I have a Xerox machine next to me. Just because I have the ability duplicate the work does
Re:Oh, Come ON!! (Score:2)
Sure, in theory it does, but the whole point of the Act was to make it commercially imposible for any competion, using a new business model that utilizes digital media, to be successful.
You answer your own question there. It was to put us in complaince.. regular old US copyright law for a couple of reasons didnt meet "international" criteria. (dont get me started on how I dont care if it did or not).
No, I did NOT answer my own question, and nei
Re:Oh, Come ON!! (Score:2)
In either case, the school makes money. In this light, tuition is another kind of cover charge. It's just that people generally agree it's ok
Re:Only for educators. . . (Score:2)
Hmmm... I suspect that the intent behind the overbroad provisions of the DMCA was more in the minds of lobbyists and campaign committees than it was in the minds of the legislators that actually voted on it. You want an ass to follow your lead, dangle a carrot. If its a politician you want, the bait is a nice full war-chest for the next reelection campaign. Neither one th
Re:Only for educators. . . (Score:1)
Re:Only for educators. . . (Score:2)
There's no such thing as a vaguely worded good law. Such a law is a bad law by definition. For example, "thou shalt not kill" is a poor law, because it makes no exceptions for self defense, capital punishment, euthanasia, and is unclear on abortion. If any of these exceptions are vaguely defined, somebody can, for example, kill you and explain that you asked him to euthanise you.
Re:Only for educators. . . (Score:2)
The use of it as a strongarm tactic is just a by-product of what was intended to be (and should be, basically) a just and good law
Why should producers of commerical products that aren't copyrightable or patentable get protection? If they should get protection, then there should be a l
What would be nice (Score:5, Informative)
The house... [house.gov]
www.ala.org/washoff/teach.html [ala.org]
Couldnt find a good senate one... but thats a start
Re:What would be nice (Score:2, Interesting)
Stop the tiresome OT Spam-Bashing, please (Score:2)
Does this mean that I won't be able to double my earnings with a college degree? Turns out my earnings doubled as soon as I graduated from university.
Since we all know that Professionals with degrees can earn up to $2.2 million more? Hey, as long as I work for another 3 decades that statement will be absolutely correct.
Oh well, at least I'll still be able to enlarge my penis... This works too... my penis enlarges every time I read sp
Lawless Teacher (Score:5, Interesting)
The end results are the same. Law, or no law, it's not going to stop this educator.
Re:Lawless Teacher (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Lawless Teacher (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, Departments at my school, Vanderbilt University [vanderbilt.edu], are forced to pay in the THOUSANDS to show a movie to a classroom or provide to the class a chapter of a book. I'm not sure about the legality of taking clips, but I know we are currently paying to do so.
Re:Lawless Teacher (Score:3, Informative)
In other words, the clips themselves are not in question, it is the method in which he's obtained them.
Re:Lawless Teacher (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Lawless Teacher (Score:2)
So you are comparing ripping a movie or d/ling a film on Kazaa to Rosa Parks or the peace marches?
I disagree.. i think "civil disobedience" is an open, loud and in order to change something.
I think breaking the DMCA, in a number of forms (other than fair use) is theivery.
Civil Disobediance, (and this is IMHO only) is when you are doing it to make a point.. not doing it cause you can.
maeryk
"DMCA violation" cases are usually fair use issues (Score:1)
I think breaking the DMCA, in a number of forms (other than fair use) is theivery.
But almost any "DMCA violation" that has shown up on Slashdot is a fair use[1] issue; otherwise, Slashdot's house style would consider it a "copyright violation" rather than a "DMCA violation".
[1] Fair use taken in the more general sense of any use of a copyrighted work that, notwithstanding 17 USC chapter 12, does not require permission of the copyright owner, especially those uses listed in 17 USC sections 107 to 122 [cornell.edu].
Re:I agree (Score:2)
You are absolutely right about that. And you know what? Consumer action will make more of a difference than "civil disobediance" will in this case. If you hit them where it hurts.. (Which, contrary to popular belief, is not by pirating, but by getting the people who WOULDNT pirate to stop funding) then you will change things.
All pirating is going to do is provide fuel for stronger and stronger laws.. which you will bitch more and more loudly abo
Impossible: CNN == Warner (Score:1)
If you _really_ want to change things, get the word out to Joe Sixpack who only reads CNN
If CNN and CNN Headline News are Joe Sixpack's sole source of information, then getting people not to buy Warner products will be an impossible task. CNN is owned by the same parent company [aoltimewarner.com] as Warner Bros.
Re:Impossible: CNN == Warner (Score:2)
Well, you are taking me a bit too literally, but you are kind of underlining my point as well.
The "real world" (read: not geeks like us, but the kind of people who are holding "die ins" in the hopes that it will change anything) needs to understand this stuff. But they wont. And not
Re:Lawless Teacher (Score:5, Informative)
In fact, technically that is breaking the law, and it's the reason we get all worked up about it. The DMCA makes it a crime to "[...] circumvent a technical protection measure that [...] protects a copyrighted work [cornell.edu]". Nowhere does the DMCA say that the crime occurs only when the subsequent use of the work would constitute copyright infringement. (It does make a limited exception for enumerated classes of works; such enumeration is the province of the Librarian of Congress, and so far that office has not granted many exceptions. DVDs are definitely not within the exception to date.)
Fair use is a defense only to an accusation of copyright infringement. Since infringement doesn't have to be alleged in a DMCA case, you never get to raise the issue of fair use.
IANAL either, but I have spent an enormous amount of time discussing this on the DVD-discuss list.
Re:Lawless Teacher (Score:2)
Re:Lawless Teacher (Score:1)
It will stop you when Disney sues your school district and they fire you.
It sounds to me like your uses fall within Fair Use, which for multimedia is generally interpreted as 10 minutes or 15%, whichever is less. (multimedia copyright info [indiana.edu]) TEACH [ncsu.edu] allows you to use materials in the same way online that you always used them in a live classroom, but the materials must be password protected and protected from further copying (generally interpreted as streamed).
If you are interested in copyright, check o
Educators and Copyright (Score:5, Interesting)
I routinely hear of a teacher buying or borrowing a book and then copying that book in its entirety on a xerox machine, and then distributing copies to students or other teachers. When asked about it, the response is invariably the same. "Oh, it's okay. I'm a teacher."
Personally, I think this is the way it *should* be, even if this practice falls well outside fair use. As a matter of fact, this same mentality will help this situation come about. After all, if enough people believe it's okay, general consensus will eventually trump legislation.
Re:Educators and Copyright (Score:4, Informative)
by Bonker (243350) on 15:09 Tuesday 25 March 2003 (#5593550)
(http://www.furinkan.net/)
Many educators I know (Elementary school teachers, so take that into account) honestly beleive they are completely immune from copyright law because they are educators.
I routinely hear of a teacher buying or borrowing a book and then copying that book in its entirety on a xerox machine, and then distributing copies to students or other teachers. When asked about it, the response is invariably the same. "Oh, it's okay. I'm a teacher."
But educators are exempt from copyright laws in many ways that common folk are. There are four factors outlined in Section 107 of the copyright law that determine fair use for educators:
The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for non-profit educational purposes.
The nature of the copyrighted work.
The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole.
The effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
So it's essentially a "good faith" doctrine: is the copied portion brief? Is this use of the work likely to threaten its market potential? Is your intent to avoid paying for copyrighted materials?
Educators definitely have rights and privilages outside of mere mortals. They do not have blank checks or blanket protection-- but they certainly are exempt in many ways. If that was the last copy of an out-of-print or hard to find book, or a book that those other educators or students would otherwise not be able to obtain (ie, cost prohibitive) and their copies would not be further distributed (here, we re-collect and/or destroy copies like that once we're done with them) then it is fine.
I don't think that's how it should be (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I don't think that's how it should be (Score:1, Insightful)
p.s. Having once worked in a bookst
Re:Educators and Copyright (Score:1)
residual self image of the first amendment (Score:2)
Personally, I think this is the way it *should* be, even if this practice falls well outside fair use
What you are feeling is an echo of the original copyright laws of the United States, which only lasted for 14 years with the possibility of extention if the author were alive. You feel as if though you should be able to copy older works, which compose the vast majority of printed material
Copyright Harmonization?!? (Score:2)
Who's with me that the acronym for something should be the letters(whatever they happen to be) for the thing's real name, instead of someone thinking of a clever word they want to have as their acronym and massaging the things name to have those letters?
PLEASE, cut the vine off at the root! (Score:5, Insightful)
Taking bets: Public good vs. Moneyed interests (Score:5, Funny)
Lessee....
Pro-market Administration: Check.
Mostly conservative Supreme Court: Check.
Decreased interest in public works by the public: Check.
Right wing propaganda machine: Check
Bookoo gajillions of greenbacks going into politicians pockets in favor of DMCA: Check.
Re:Taking bets: Public good vs. Moneyed interests (Score:2)
No, see, that's the thing. Insane copyright monopoly extension, protection of convicted monopolists from punishment, big government subsidies for buisnesses, import taxes on steel --- these things aren't pro-market. Not in the short term, and certainly not in the long term. They are completely anti-market.
Lots of people who think they're conservatives routinely confuse policies that bail out current large buisnesses with being pro-market. They are very different
Re:Taking bets: Public good vs. Moneyed interests (Score:2)
Last I looked most of the media outlets (i.e. Disney) were NOT parts of the vast right wing conspiracy. Most right wingers were very disappointed at the passage of the Mickey Mouse Protection Act and are not in favor of chilling or ending free speach. Of course, the left would like the right to be:) Reality is that copyright interests don't fall to the left or the right. In other words, you don't do the cause good when you attempt to lay blame on the wrong demon, gh
Patriotic? (Score:1)
Most right wingers [...] are not in favor of chilling or ending free speach [sic].
Then who was in favor of the USAPATRIOT act?
Re:Patriotic? (Score:2)
Everyone but Russ Feingold (D) in the Senate [senate.gov]. Four Republicans voted against in the House [house.gov] (I guess the right was the smallest bit more opposed). There were a total of five votes against Patriot - four "right wing" and one "left wing".
Re:Taking bets: Public good vs. Moneyed interests (Score:2)
Corporate Welfare is *not* pro-market. It's anti-market. When the government hands out large sums of cash or public resources or military action to a company that is selected for these benefits due to political connections, it's no different than the Soviet Union handing large sums of cash to the Mikoyan design bureau to build a new MiG fighter.
It just blows my mind that these activities are supported by so-called conservatives as pro-market, when they're not.
Huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeesh, what a hackneyed misuse of an already overworked phrase. A litmus test, in common parlance, is some issue used to put something into one category or another, just like a real litmus test determines whether a substance has acid or base ph. One example would be a Supreme Court nominee's opinion on abortion used as a determiner as to whether they are conservative or liberal. You could call this a stress test, I suppose, but hardly a litmus test.
Sorry to get picky, but sometimes sloppy diction gets my hackles up...
But if they stop... (Score:1)
I use this all the time in testing the technical limits of clients, prospective co-workers, and random techie people. You start a casual conversation about some absurbly technical topic, and wait for the buzzwords/jargon to come out--then you tease them into a potential mis-step, and see whether they fall in it.
People who honestly don't know what you're talking about won't feel pressured into lying to cover it up (unless there's
Dictating Diction (Score:2)
Your choice of words is ironic. My first thought was that you were being sloppy yourself. I've never heard "diction" used to mean "choice of words". I can only recall it being used to mean "clarity or correctness of vocalization." But a little browsing convinces me that your usage is better established. Still, I don't intend to say "diction" instead of "choice of words" because people who share my former ignorance might misunderstand m
Stress test (Score:1)
Stress tests are something relatively few people do.
"Relatively few"? Please. Have you seen how American drivers on the roads treat their cars nowadays?
Re:Stress test (Score:2)
Forward-looking legislation (Score:3, Insightful)
Organizations such as the MPAA have the stated position that copyright should be absolute in nature, indefinate in durration and that fair use does not exist. Clearly, the TEACH act is in direct conflict with this position, but instead of stepping up to work within the law, the Motion Picture Association of America chooses to bend the law, then have it re-written to accomodate it's whims.
Clearly, by implication of the TEACH Act, circumvention tools are in fact not only legal to develop, distribute and use, but encouraged. This is good news for all who wish to see the creative works of the past preserves in accessible forms for future generations.
--CTH
well... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:well... (Score:1)
-uso.
Open MIT (Score:2)
I hope the DMCA wins (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, this is the philosophy Ralph Nader used in the 2000 election, so I could be wrong...
Somewhat like Medical Marijuana (Score:2)
Problem is, there's nobody legally allowed to supply them.
The impending TEaCH/DMCA clash is looking like a different version of the same problem.
Re:Somewhat like Medical Marijuana (Score:2)
Interesting analogy.
In the case of medical marijuana I suppose one could grow it and avoid giving money to the criminals[1] that typically supply it.
In the case of this I suppose one could write their own circumvention devices and avoid the "criminals"[2] that supply it.
Footnotes:
I hope they go after the Librarians next... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I hope they go after the Librarians next... (Score:1)
-uso.
Rants "R" Me.
Re: (Score:2)
Correlation is not Causation (Score:1)
Most copyright violations occur after circumventing protections. Therefore, if you criminalize circumvention you will get less copyright violations.
(Boolean) Logical Fallacies [infidels.org]:
Denial of the antecedent
This fallacy is an argument of the form "A implies B, A is false, therefore B is false". The truth table for implication makes it clear why this is a fallacy.
Re:Correlation is not Causation (Score:2)
Most copyright violations occur after circumventing protections. Therefore if you do not circumvent protections you are less likely to violate copyright. This is probably true.
What you may have meant was perhaps "Most copyright violations occur after circumventing protections. Therefore if you circumvent protections you must be intent on copyright violation" It may be true but not necessarily. Your statement about ice-cream is true but