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BSA Accuses OpenOffice Mirrors
Posted by
michael
on Fri Feb 28, 2003 09:26 AM
from the premature-exclamation dept.
from the premature-exclamation dept.
sqrt529 writes "A German university was accused by the BSA of pirating MS Office, because they mirrored OpenOffice.org. The scripts from the BSA only check for "Office" in the filename and then automatically send out notices to the ftp admins. Did any of you get similar notices from the BSA?"
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Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Funny)
SlashDOT_MS_OFFICE_2K_1_of_37.zip
heh.
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Re:Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Insightful)
Why doesn't the RICO Act apply to the BSA (not the Boy Scouts)?
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Re:Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Interesting)
The BSA is certainly morally corrupt but I must admit I don't understand what the parent poster was trying to say by suggesting they should fall under RICO.
-j
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Re:Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Funny)
BSA represents that the information in this notification is accurate and states, under penalty of perjury, that it is authorized to act in this matter on behalf of the copyright owners listed above.
Does the BSA represent OpenOffice.org? Perjury it is then...
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Re:Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not? They already eliminated the first step where they actually make sure you have an illegal copy of office.
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Re:Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Insightful)
Bullshit... if they have some reason to believe I'm pirating software, even if I'm not using said software, it can be tough for me to prove I'm innocent. After all, their standard is "guilty until raided and proven innocent." So they can come in and raid me, and even though I'm innocent, they can disrupt my business and confiscate my computers. Who else has the power to do this? Nobody I can think of, definitely not legally.
Do you prefer they eliminate the middle step and go straight to the FBI when you learn about your illegal copy of Office?
Actually, yes. I think that's what everyone wishes would happen. If the BSA is accusing you of less than $5,000 worth of piracy, the FBI will tell the BSA to f'off. If they're accusing you of more than $5,000, then the FBI will conduct a proper investigation, unlike the BSA's slash and burn approach. The BSA is a vigilante group, and they should be stopped.
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Re:Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Insightful)
If the BSA sent a false complaint to your ISP / hosting provider saying you violated copyright laws, there would be no harm? Even if they take down your site or cut off your internet access?
If they went straight to the FBI with a false complaint like this, they'd probably end up in jail.
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Re:Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Open Office Outlawed (Score:5, Funny)
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Wow. That's stupid. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, that's really bright. If I were operating any servers that had been raped by the BSA's scripts like this, I'd be extremely pissed off. They should realize that bandwidth isn't exactly free, especially not in countries != US.
Re:Wow. That's stupid. (Score:5, Funny)
Searched the web for Office.
Results 1 - 10 of about 78,600,000. Search took 0.10 seconds.
Start sending the letters!
as an interesting side note, the first link is US Copyright Office [loc.gov]
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No one claims they've got a brains monopoly (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Harrass them right back! (Score:5, Interesting)
Sue them for diffamation. In some moment they should learn that accussing someone for things nobody did have a cost (at least a generous salary for the one that had to check their affirmation, administrative costs, etc).
Terrorists don't have to send bombs around to spread terror and cause economic chaos... just mail in the name of BSA letters to all companies that inform that illegal software was detected in their systems and next week will go a team to check licenses, and billons of dollars will be lost.
In fact, I think BSA is fitting very well in the "terrorist" definition, could US army invade them to avoid further damage?
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Re:Harrass them right back! (Score:5, Interesting)
from the mail
BSA represents that the information in this
notification is accurate and states, under penalty of perjury, that it is
authorized to act in this matter on behalf of the copyright owners listed
above.
they (BSA) obviously played it very softly(apologies and thanks), cause they feel a little weak on this one.
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Re:Harrass them right back! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Harrass them right back! (Score:5, Insightful)
This sort of harassment needs to stop.
The problem is that it's cheaper to send out a threatening letter than to check carefully and THEN send letters only to true offenders. You just bet that 99% of recipients will stop doing whatever it is you suspect them of - which makes it a cost-effective way to work. The BSA doesn't have these people as customers - so what does it care if it pisses them off?
I suppose, what the world needs is a law to say that if you send someone a letter threatening legal action if they don't do something - then if they don't do it, you should be REQUIRED to take them to court - and to be liable for their costs, pain & suffering, mental anguish, etc, etc if they turn out to be innocent.
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Re:analogy time (Score:5, Funny)
After college you use a small inheritance to open up a wicker basket shop. What's wrong with that? Just because you're a man doesn't mean you can't sell wicker bastkets! It has NOTHING to do with your sexuality. Anyway, one day an odd man walks into your shop, picks up a basket, and starts screaming "You haff stolen mein design! Look at zis basket!"
Quickly you rush over to get him to stop screaming. He looks at you oddly for a second, then mutters "my mistake" and shoves the basket into your hands and stumbles out. As you start to put the basket back on the shelf, you notice a strange capsule on the bottom. "Odd." you think.
Since it's your lunch hour the next time the shop is empty you put up your closed sign and sit back in your office. Examining the small capsule you realize that you can open it. When you do so a small piece of translucent plastic pops out. "Wait a minute," you think, "that almost looks like microfilm..." This has turned into a strange day. You put the plastic back in the capsule and hide it in the office safe, behind the picture of dogs playing poker. All through the rest of the day you puzzle over the odd events. Finally, you close up shop and leave; since tomorrow is Saturday, you open up late. Maybe you can head over to your alma mater, the local community college where you studied Wicker Science and use one of their microfiche machines to see if that strange strip of plastic really is microfilm.
As you stop by your office early Saturday morning you sense something is wrong. Quickly entering your office you're horrified to find that the place is trashed; papers are strewn about, furniture has been moved, and figurines from your porcelain kitten collection have been thrown to the ground, and now lay in shards. Breathlessly you check your safe; apparently they didn't check the painting, and the capsule is still there. You feel a cold ball of fear settle in your stomach; what the hell is going on?
If you've read this far you'll find it's not really an analogy, but I wanted to write a little story featuring a wicker shop. Maybe next time a post on slashdot mentions a wicker basket shop I'll write part II of the story.
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Re:Wow. That's stupid. (Score:5, Interesting)
Hell, isn't that illegal under the DMCA? They're circumventing a protection measure to gain access to digitally protected work. Heh. That'd be awesome, if someone would sue the BSA for breaching the DMCA...
Also, here in the US, it's very common to be charged a flat fee for internet service, such that one would pay (say) $400 a month for a guaranteed pipeline of 3Mbits (numbers are made up, but you get the idea.) Whereas, in other parts of the world, billing is much more commonly based on the amount of data transferred. Which means that if I host a server here, I pay for the line to it - no matter if the machine is accessed once or two million times in a month, whereas in other countries (especially Europe, including Germany), the difference between once and two million accesses is quite large, and may result in higher bills due to more data transfer.
My point is that the BSA wasted bandwidth, needlessly scared a sysadmin at a German university, and may have even violated the DMCA in doing so. Again... Wow, that was stupid of them.
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Funny! (Score:5, Insightful)
It made *me* chuckle, anyhow...
not funny (Score:5, Insightful)
The BSA obviously has a problem doing it's job. Do you think they can trust the names people put on files? No, if they are going to do their repulsive job they have to dig deeper than that. It looks like they felt they could not do that practically and so decided to make everyone else do their work for them by proving their innocence. I hope it bites them in the ass.
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At least vigilante retaliation isn't legal yet (Score:5, Insightful)
FTP is a file-sharing protocol, isn't it?
Change the LA for ftp sites (Score:5, Interesting)
Up for penalty? (Score:5, Interesting)
BSA represents that the information in this notification is accurate and states, under penalty of perjury, that it is authorized to act in this matter on behalf of the copyright owners listed above.
So the BSA has perjured itself; now what is the penalty?
Re:Up for penalty? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Up for penalty? (Score:5, Interesting)
Ha!
I'd've spent DAYS scouring every open directory on the aforementioned server, just to verify that no copy of MS-Office was on there, then send them the bill. And use that clause as justification. Run it through court, and you've got a decision against the BSA showing that, at least once, their practices were shoddy and their information unreliable.
Wouldn't *that* be a great thing for the next recipient of a BSA-extortion-threat to point to?
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This beggars belief (Score:5, Interesting)
Filename:
The above computer program(s) is/are being made available for copying, through downloading, at the above location without authorization from the copyright owner(s).
It seems almost astonishing that even the BSA can be as utterly incompetent as this (does BSA stand for Bloody Stupid Alliance?). Unless you go for the conspiracy theory that they're deliberately hassling their clients rivals...
50 million people download OpenOffice (Score:5, Funny)
Quote: "As you know, illegal on-line activities can result in 50 million people on the Internet accessing and downloading a copyrighted product worldwide without authorization - a highly damaging activity for the copyright holder."
Well I suppose 50 million people downloading OpenOffice would damage Microsoft's Office sales :)
invalid e-mail address? (Score:5, Interesting)
>> FTP Login Name: anonymous
>> FTP Login Password: guest@nowhere.com
Hmm. Using a spoofed (or at least, invalid) e-mail address?
As most FTP servers allow anonymous access if you "Please provide e-mail address as password", I'd call that gaining access under false pretences. Is the BSA representing those same companies that get so pissy when people (for privacy reasons) use spoofed details on web "please register" forms?
If they can do it, so can we. I won't feel so guilty - not that I did anyway - next time I install software and register it to "nobody@mindyourownbusiness.com"..
The BSA aren't without Sin here (Score:5, Interesting)
In the UK this could be construed as attempting to access a system un-lawfully
In Yo Face (Score:5, Interesting)
It's clear the much feared BSA has made a mistake.
However, since their actions in the past have caused untold scrambling to find licenses on the part of many law-abiding but sloppy businesses, I think it is only fair that BSA likewise be caused to scramble. Because the BSA, likewise, has now been sloppy.
The university should have lawyer draft up some pompous letter indicating that
[I know, it will be only a paper tiger and never stand up. But I'm sure I'm not the only one that fantasizes about seeing the BSA have to eat their own dogfood for a change.]
Re:In Yo Face (Score:5, Funny)
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This is too much... (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know what's funnier... that they're claiming copyright infringement of OpenOffice, or that they thought Microsoft Office came as RPMs!!
This is the part I refer to:
-
What was located as infringing content:
Oh hell, I needed a laugh this morning...Filename: /mandrake_current/SRPMS/OpenOffice.org-1.0.1-9mdk. src.rpm /mandrake_current/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/OpenOffice.or g-libs-1.0.1-9mdk.i586.rpm
(199,643kb)
Filename:
(35,444kb)
The above computer program(s) is/are being made available for copying, through downloading, at the above location without authorization from the copyright owner(s).
Time to make some "Special" zip files... (Score:5, Funny)
Just remember everyone, Unix-like operating systems (Free-BSD, Linux, GNU/Linux, HPUX, Solaris, etc.) have the capability to have "Empty" files. When you do an `ls`, they CAN show up as huge....
I think I'll go making a download page at my website with "Office.zip", "Word.zip", and "Outlook.zip", which all will appear to be 600 megs or larger.....
Then go the next step... (Score:5, Funny)
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What the script probably found was... (Score:5, Funny)
Hmmm, seem's as if their regexps need some fine-tuning...
So what would you ask the BSA? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:So what would you ask the BSA? (Score:5, Interesting)
OK, seriously: Tell him to presume innocence rather than immediately assume guilt. Tell him that, believe it or not, there are a lot of people and businesses that use software which is not only ok to copy freely, but such copying is highly encouraged. He needs to find a way to get his mind around that and set policies in place to deal with it.
If I were grilling him, I'd ask him something along the lines of "So if you find this small business that is using illegal copies of non-free/commercial software, do you immediately persecute them or do you suggest free alternatives? Why not? You want businesses to stay in business, right? Well then why not show them the error of their ways, and then show them how not to get in trouble again -- without causing any artifical financial hardships on them? If they pirated MS Office because they couldn't afford it, why try to get blood from a stone?"
Pipe dream, I know. The BSA is basically the brute squad, and exists only to enforce "taxes". But it sure would be nice if they were at least slightly constructive, and actually helped businesses build the economy.
-B
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Re:So what would you ask the BSA? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know. . . stuff. Nothing grandiose or complicated - just simple things like leg irons, hot pokers, thumbscrews. . .
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sue them. (Score:5, Insightful)
if you sent the bsa a legal document that was false, could you get away with, "oops, sorry?"
BSA using bad anonymous login (Score:5, Interesting)
login: anonymous
password: guest@nowhere.com
I doubt that the address guest@nowhere.com connects to the person that runs the script for the BSA. If servers had the policy requirement that all anonymous access required a valid email address as the anonymous login password the letter from the BSA would provide a valid point to charge the BSA with illegal access to a system.
Also if the BSA does not represent the copyright/left holders for OpenOffice then the BSA is open for a claim of false representation.
>> Based upon BSA's representation of the copyright owners in anti-piracy
>> matters, we have a good faith belief that none of the materials or
>> activities listed above have been authorized by the rightholders, their
>> agents, or the law. BSA represents that the information in this
>> notification is accurate and states, under penalty of perjury, that it is
>> authorized to act in this matter on behalf of the copyright owners listed
>> above.
Who is infringing who? (Score:5, Insightful)
From the BSA apology: (italics and emphasis mine)
Apparently our system detects the OpenOffice files as MS Office programs and alarms me, which in turn sends the notices. I failed my part by not reassuring clearly enough which property was infringed and now that I am aware of that fact we will try and fix the search terms of our system and of course be more aware of the possible mistake.
Apparently, they automatically assume that some one/organization is a crook by the "which property was infringed" statement. No human oversite of the 'bot, no extensive verification routines, etc. and the result is frivolous threats and accusations. This isn't the first time I've heard of this happening. To me, this sounds like routinely making false accusations against innocent people and businesses.
IANAL, however let's see if I can layout objectional behavior and possibly illegal behavior:
Frivolous accusation of wrong doing without due diligence to verify allegations made by threat. This cost the University money because employees had to deal with a claim without merit. At least 2 employees, and a potentially expensive number of man-hours. No doubt, the person who received the threat sent it to their boss, who either sent it to their boss or the legal department. At least one meeting would have ensued as well as researching the claim that the University stated that they did to check that in fact they were not distributing MS Office. That could be several thousand Euros or even more that ten thousand Euros based on time involved where these people could have and would have been engaged in productive work.
Despite the point of entry being anonymous FTP, the BSA engaged in what might possibly be theft of service (by consuming a finite resource for other than the purpose the allowed reason of access that the University pays for). This may also prevent others from using the system legitimately because of the expense of the system.
Trespassing possibly. SPAM has been cited as trespassing due to the use of others assets for transmittal and storage. Perhaps this can be construed like this as well.If in fact accusations like these directed against the University of Muenster have been occuring for some time against others for doing similar things, than the apology (from the organization since I can't speak for the individual) most likely is not sincere and means that this behavior will in all likelihood continue, the the University and others. I believe we can be reasonably sure that the BSA has not ceased this behavior because of this incident.
I feel that this situation is akin to this scenario: I give or sell a dozen cookies to people or organizations in Boston. Then, I walk into every office in New York City and exclaim that because there is some food on a desk, food waste in the trash, etc., that they obviously stole my cookies because cookies are food. Cookies are the metphor for software and an unlocked door at an office is the metaphor for anonymous FTP.
What this shows is that the BSA is engaging in activities in multiple countries. Because their membership is dominated by the major software companies, and here they threatend the distribution of a competing, if free, product, perhaps this can be construed as collusion by the software giants and anticompetive behavior. Can someone cite other similar instances?
Re:MS copyrights speech! (Word Up!) (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but think of the money they could collect from Vanilla Ice, Cameo, and the various other early 90's rap stars.
OpenOffice to your mother.
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Re:MS copyrights speech! (Score:5, Funny)
1 Slashdot Way
Re: Unauthorized use of "Word" in Slashdot comment "MS copyrights speech!"
URL: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=55437&cid
Dear Mr. Hibbs:
I am writing to inform you that you are using Microsoft's (MSFT) copyrighted term "Word" (TERM) in your postings without authorization. This reproduction of MSFT's TERM violates federal copyright law.
Be advised that federal copyright law provides substantial protection for authors against the unauthorized use of their work. Registration of a copyright is unnecessary; the Copyright Act provides such protection from the moment an author's ideas are reduced to tangible form. Only MSFT has the right to reproduce, adapt, distribute and publicly display TERM. Anyone who infringes upon an author's exclusive rights by copying and/or unlawfully appropriating the work can be judicially restrained from making such improper uses of the work, subject to the impounding of unauthorized copies of the work and held accountable for monetary damages incurred and/or profits earned as a result of these unlawful acts.
MSFT hereby demands that you immediately cease and desist from making any further use of any MSFT copyrights in your postings or elsewhere. If you want to make any use of TERM, you must secure MSFT's permission to do so before proceeding. Please immediately contact us regarding appropriate compensation for your past unauthorized use of TERM.
William Gates (billg@microsoft.com)
1 Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052
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Here's an idea: Let's sue the BSA! (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Guilty of Perjury (Score:5, Interesting)
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Not really. (Score:5, Insightful)
Read this interview [educause.edu] with Gates himself for more insight on Microsoft and the BSA.
To sum it all up, the BSA *is* Microsoft.
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Re:my rights online (Score:5, Insightful)
If memory serves me correctly, and it has been known to fail me at times, one of the requirements under the DMCA is that an expedited "takedown" notice has to be stipulated "under penalty of perjury" to be valid.
Arguably, this was to prevent people from making stuff up to get other people's sites taken down. Otherwise I could send a letter to your ISP claiming that your site infringed on a copyright that I or someone who employed me held. The ISP would immediately take your site offline, doesn't want to loose its "safe harbor" immunity. By the time you contested it, your site would have been off line for a day or longer. This way, if you do send out a "take down" notice that you haven't checked and made sure that it did indeed contain infringing materials, you could be punished.
I think that the BSA should be taken to court. If they can have a program automatically generate notices to hundreds or thousands of sites automatically, whether or not they are actually infringing, it makes a mockery of swearing to something under "penalty of perjury".
Scripts shouldn't be allowed to threaten legal action. The DMCA is bad enough as it is. If someone doesn't put a stop to this soon, a large swath of the net could be censored by bogus "take down" letters. Saying "Opps, so sorry 'bout that" when some one calls you on your lie isn't good enough. What about all of the other sites that may have or will get taken down because of things like this that weren't caught?
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