Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
Search

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Great Firewall Becomes Greater

Posted by timothy on Thu Sep 12, 2002 12:38 PM
from the move-along-now dept.
Censorship
Jay writes "This article on Yahoo! mentions China's new restrictions on websites as of September 1st. Apparently it's more advanced and doesn't censor the entire webpage, just portions. It also forwards requests for search engines, like google, to less effective search engines. They also mention that this might just be temporary during a Communist Party Congress. Anyone have a mirror?" A different AP article spins things slightly differently, emphasizing that Google is apparently no longer blocked in China and mentioning the selective blocking of web content only in passing.
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.

Great Firewall Becomes Greater 50 Comments More /

 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • The wiley will find ways around it.
    The rest won't miss it.

    At least its stepping up the challenge for those who are wiley!

    (I think it's pretty devious that they aren't blocking google searches, just sending them to a less efficient search engine! ha!)
  • As any parent can tell you, telling your child not to look in the "forbidden closet of mystery" undoubtedly ends in your child doing the opposite. I think it's only a matter of time before the people of China put an end to the censorship.
  • All it takes is one box being set up to mirror, or finding an unblocked box to route through...they're shooting themselves in the foot. For every major page they want to censor, there's a thousand more that aren't as prominent that will have the same political gist...

  • Blocking part of a webpage (Score:3, Informative)

    by poincaraux (114797) on Thursday September 12 2002, @12:47PM (#4245912)
    Apparently it's more advanced and doesn't censor the entire webpage, just portions.


    Actually, the Yahoo article says that it blocks portions of websites rather than whole websites. Blocking parts of individual webpages would be a bit tougher :).
  • I suppose the Chinese government dedicated little effort to alerting users of a modification. This is an ideal method by which to distribute propaganda. ;)

  • censorship is like the world's funniest joke (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rjnagle (122374) on Thursday September 12 2002, @01:00PM (#4245979) Homepage
    Sites that link to controversial Chinese sites. don't necessarily promote these idealogies; they are merely acknowledging their controversial nature. It reminds me a little of the Monty Python sketch about the world's funniest joke [montypython.net], and anyone who heard or viewed the joke would die of laughter. The premise of censorship is that offensive content contaminates the hearts and minds of people. But you can only have censorship if someone can judge content without himself being contaminated. This contradicts the premise of censorship, which alleges that these contaminating powers exist inherently in the offensive material. On the other hand, if a censor can censor without being contaminated, that implies that offensive content does not automatically contaminate the mind or heart of a person. In that case, you would be admitting that censorship is unnecessary. That is the contradiction of censorship.

    Test China's Firewall [imaginaryplanet.net]
  • As soon as the NY Times covers it [nytimes.com] (on a day with half the heads of state in the world in NYC), China backs down [nytimes.com].

    Now if we can just get them to recognize that the legitimate government of China sits in Taipei....

  • I want the "The Great SMTP Wall" of China... (Score:5, Funny)

    by toupsie (88295) on Thursday September 12 2002, @01:20PM (#4246148) Homepage
    Now, if only the Chinese Government would prevent e-mail from escaping their country, about 75% of the SPAM I receive every day would disapear.

  • And all thanks to American companies. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fmaxwell (249001) on Thursday September 12 2002, @01:25PM (#4246191) Homepage Journal
    This article [weeklystandard.com] is a sickening insight into how corporate greed in the U.S. made it possible for China to filter the network and even catch and arrest dissidents.

    To force compliance with government objectives--to ensure that all pipes lead back to Rome--they needed the networking superpower, Cisco, to standardize the Chinese Internet and equip it with firewalls on a national scale. According to the Chinese engineer, Cisco came through, developing a router device, integrator, and firewall box specially designed for the government's telecom monopoly. At approximately $20,000 a box, China Telecom "bought many thousands" and IBM arranged for the "high-end" financing. Michael confirms: "Cisco made a killing. They are everywhere."


    And Cisco is not the only U.S. company in Beijing's pocket. Let's not forget our friends at Yahoo!

    Chinese xenophobia has led many other U.S. companies to play similar games, but Yahoo! was particularly eager to please. All Chinese chat rooms or discussion groups have a "big mama," a supervisor for a team of censors who wipe out politically incorrect comments in real time. Yahoo! handles things differently. If in the midst of a discussion you type, "We should have nationwide multiparty elections in China!!" no one else will react to your comment. How could they? It appears on your screen, but only you and Yahoo!'s big mama actually see your thought crime. After intercepting it and preventing its transmission, Mother Yahoo! then solicitously generates a friendly e-mail suggesting that you cool your rhetoric--censorship, but with a New Age nod to self-esteem.


    This is a sad reminder of how large American companies have abandoned the idea of corporate ethics. The Chinese government is probably arresting, and maybe executing, pro-democracy advocates based on the work of companies like Cisco and Yahoo!. The U.S. government should prosecute the bastards at Cisco and Yahoo! responsible for providing these tools to the Chinese government.
    • That's because fucking capitalists have only commerce as a value. They don't really care about freedom or democracy except as defined by the ability to buy elected officials.

      Boeing sold missle technology to the Chinese, too. If the AK-47 wasn't such a great rifle, I'd bet that Colt would sell them M-16s too.

      Wasn't it Kruschev who said that the capitalists would sell the communists the rope they'd hang them with?

      It's all true.
    • That's a huge load of horse shit.

      1. "Greed" made the rest of the world what it is, thank you. You wouldn't be typing away on a dirt cheap computer on a cheap Net connection if not for "greed", so quit your mindless kneejerking.

      2. So then, every gun manufacturer should be sued for the people who use 'em to kill people? Car manufacturers should be sued for people who drive drunk? Baseball bat companies should be sued for people who buy their bats to bludgeon somebody to death? You're a fucking clueless moron. China's not the problem, here, not Cisco.

      Ass.
      • "Greed" made the rest of the world what it is, thank you


        Indeed. And that's a pretty damning indictment, given the current state of the rest of the world.


        So then, every gun manufacturer should be sued for the people who use 'em to kill people?


        If Mister Bad Guy goes up to Mister Gun Dealer and says "I need a gun with special poison-tipped bullets, so that I'll be sure to kill the President when I do my assassination attempt tomorrow", and Mister Gun Dealer designs, manufactures, and sells such a gun to Mister Bad Guy, then YES, Mister Gun Dealer is a knowing accomplice to the misdeed and should be punished.


        Cisco designed, manufactured, and sold a custom firewall for the Chinese government, and cannot plausibley deny that they knew what the Chinese government was going to use it for. If mass censorship is a crime, then Cisco is just as guilty as the Chinese government is.

      • You're a fucking clueless moron.

        If you could find someone willing to fuck you, you would be a "fucking, clueless moron." Unless you've found a woman of incredibly low standards, you're only batting two out of three.

        China's not the problem, here, not Cisco.

        Bullshit. It's assholes like you that are the problem. Anything for a buck. If Al Qaeda wants to buy guns, ammo, and the components to make chemical and biological weapons, some greedy dick like you will sell the items to them and then disclaim all responsibility. If you thought that there was a market among pedophiles for crotchless panties in children's sizes, you'd be selling them. In fact, you probably just read that and thought it sounded like a great business plan.

        Some of us have ethics. Don't get pissed off at us just because we have something you don't.

        Ass

        Well at least you signed your posting.

    • Re:And all thanks to American companies. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by sielwolf (246764) on Thursday September 12 2002, @04:15PM (#4247331) Homepage Journal
      The U.S. government should prosecute the bastards at Cisco and Yahoo! responsible for providing these tools to the Chinese government.


      Jesus. I'm glad you would like to live in a world where you have to do what the government considers right in addition to not doing what it thinks is wrong.

      So where is this government? The one that is purely good and righteous? And unfallable?

      And how paranoid do you have to be? If you had supplied sandwiches to the vending companies that filled Enron's stomachs, should you too be arrested? Or should a housewife be arrested for enabling her husband's drinking? How far does the blame go? Those that you see as at fault?

      In law the blame falls squarely on those who perpetrate the act. It is only rare laws that blame accessories and enablers. To institute a web of blame and guilt is foolish... unless you are trying to build some sort of fascist thought state.
          • Corporations, OTOH, are not here to act as an ethical mouthpiece. They are here to employ citizens, make money, and follow the government's rules.

            Your arguments are just a thinly veiled excuse for why corporations should feel free to do anything they like to make a buck. Don't think about what you are doing. If it's not explicitly illegal, just do it.

            Ethics is (surprise) subjective.

            Ethics is not nearly so subjective as you claim. If it was, colleges could not teach courses in "business ethics." The courses would all be over in one day with the summary "do whatever you can to make money because ethics is subjective."

            I don't need my government to tell me that it is morally wrong to help foreign governments track down, arrest, and kill people for expressing their beliefs. I have a moral compass. I know right from wrong. So do the people running Cisco and Yahoo!. They simply choose to let their corporate greed outweigh their sense of decency.

            If the Krupp offices in the US started going out and executing Jews in America during 1939 they couldn't just say "Hey, we do this in Germany all the time!"

            By your "logic", Krupp in Germany did nothing wrong when they used Jews as slave labor, starving them and working them to exhaustion, and finally sending them off to be killed in the gas chambers when they could work no longer. After all, this was legal and "ethics is (surprise) subjective." Krupp certainly followed your definition of what a business should do: "They are here to employ citizens, make money, and follow the government's rules."

            What's it like going through life with no sense of right or wrong?
  • Can't get Google?

    Try the recently released Googlemail
    http://www.capescience.com/google/index.shtml [capescience.com]

    send an e-mail to: google@capeclear.com [mailto]with your query in the subject line.

    Of course, google cache is probably not accessible

  • Advanced (Score:4, Funny)

    by t_allardyce (48447) on Thursday September 12 2002, @02:04PM (#4246529) Journal
    You all might think that china is far behind civilization with their censorship of the internet/free speech, but in fact you couldn't be further from the truth. They are actually years ahead of us all!

    Just remember, in a few years time when DRM is mandatory and free speech is crippled by 'national security' and the need for everyone to be protected from alternative ideas, china will be leading the way in firewalls, and filters, and they'll be teaching _Cisco_ how to do it :)

  • Quick, Mr Bush! (Score:5, Funny)

    by nagora (177841) on Thursday September 12 2002, @02:54PM (#4246885)
    Over there, look: commies abusing human rights, they've got weapons of mass destruction, they've invaded their peaceful neighbour, Tibet, and they're in breach of UN resolutions. I guess we're going to have to send the troops in and kick their ass!

    What's that you say, Mr Bush? No, I don't think Tibet has any oil. Why do you ask?

    Hello? Hello? Mr Bush?

    TWW

  • Obviously some geeks are helping the government out in implementing this, no? The selective blocking software is non-trivial. What are those guys thinking? How can you be part of the technology sector and still help limit people's access to it? Do these guys realize that they're going to Geek Hell?
    • Yeah, it's off his latest album, entitled "My right to download all the music and software I want is constitutionally protected according to 1337-dude39 on slashdot.org"..really long title, the spine of the cd formats it really poorly.
    • How insidious.

      "Why would you want to view these sites? They're all crap! Where's the content?"

      "Go back to your homes, read the newspapers we print for you and for Mao's Sake Don't get knocked up! We have enough people as it is. I repeat, DO NOT SCREW!"

    • Wow, you've been censored!

      I viewed the same link as you, and got these top 3 results:

      antiw*r.com "leave china alone"
      english.peopledaily.com.cn "foreign f***n g**g activists asked to leave"
      hyperm*rt.net "yankees leave china alone"
      And then some news articles about the North K*reans seeking asylum in China then moving to South K*rea.

      I starred out things above so hopefully the Great Firewall of China won't block this post and you can read it.

      I have a friend in China and we often ICQ each other to test the firewall and verify things he's researching, and we've ran into several surprising differences....
    • In case anyone thinks this poster really lives in China (moderators, I'm looking in your direction), note that our beloved Slashdot is on the blocklist [harvard.edu].
    • What is?

      There are 8 camaras on my 1 mile jorney two work, and i live in the country side.

      The UK governemnt is talking about killing people for the peace of the world.

      I can be free from the bondage of work, but I will probably die or be arrested if I take up the freedom.

      And look at the streangth gained by Ignorant voteing.

      China fits the Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength bit i suppose.

      But more in the
      'Religion is unpure thinking therefore we ban Religion, and save your neck by doing so.'

      'Greed is the greatest temptation so well stop you from knowing whats out there because you might just become tempted.'

      Oh and were all a bunch of power mungers must fit in there somewhere, but then thats the case with most countries.

    • Is EVERYTHING "becoming like 1984"?? I know I speak for more people than just myself when I say that we are tired of everything being compared to 1984.

      I know that I'm going to be modded as a troll for not conforming to the masses yet again, but comon, at least be more imaginative than comparing every to 1984.

    • China is only communist by name. In reality, their economy is a mix between communism and capitalism, and they're on their way to convert even more things to capitalism. If you walk around in China, you'll be flooded by ads everywhere. Lots of people own small shops or companies.
      They might be even "more capitalist" than us. The shops and restaurants there don't hesitate to stay open all night if there are enough customers (so they can ear more money). I don't see West-European shops or restaurants do that, they close after 10 PM no matter how many customers.
      • The shops and restaurants there don't hesitate to stay open all night if there are enough customers (so they can ear more money). I don't see West-European shops or restaurants do that, they close after 10 PM no matter how many customers.

        24-hour businesses are quite common in America.

      • In what year do we live again? Right, 2002. 2002 - 1989 = 13. Any big revolts since 1989?

        Oh, about "ran them over with tanks": where do you see people getting run over? I see tanks, but I never see anybody getting run over by tanks or flat dead bodies.
          • > Wow. You're ignorant.

            Then enlighten me with your wisedom.

            > 1. The gov't would do their best to censor any
            > news of any revolts from leaving the country.

            I left the country by... filling an emigration form to The Netherlands and then stepping in an airplane, 8 years ago?
            Wow, my parents must have really searched through a lot of illegal sources! My god, we'll be killed if we visit China!
            Oh wait, I've visited China 3 times already ever since I left! What the hell is going on? Enlighten me, oh wise NineNine!

            > 2. People in China who even *think* about any
            > such thing are summarily "disappeared".

            You mean they invented mass-mind reading machines? I wanna get one!
    • Or maybe it's because they don't WANT a bloody revolution and war.

      Hey, things improved in the last 10 years, I don't see a reason why things won't keep improving, especially now that they get a new government.

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.