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Godzilla Getting Ready to Stomp Mozilla?

Posted by timothy on Tue Aug 13, 2002 01:46 PM
from the we-own-your-formative dept.
mrBlond writes: "Doing the rounds: Seems like Toho [jp], 'the owner of all rights in and to the trademark and service mark GODZILLA [jp] and the GODZILLA characters,' is coming down on Davezilla for use of 'zilla' in his domain name and his dragon logo, to set a precedent before attacking Mozilla."
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  • so what? (Score:4, Funny)

    by endoboy (560088) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:48PM (#4063369)
    mothra will protect us
  • by iamwoodyjones (562550) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:49PM (#4063374) Journal
    Wow, everyone is right. Slashdot is starting to become a comment board for the register.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:51PM (#4063392)
    Sun, 11 August, 2002
    Goodbye little dragon guy!
    [Blog] - Davezilla @ 07:07:43 pm
    re: DAVEZILLA.COM
    Dear Mr. Linabury:

    We represent Toho Co., Ltd ("Toho") in intellectual property matters. Toho is the owner of all rights in and to the trademark and service mark GODZILLA and the GODZILLA characters. In addition, the name "GODZILLA" and the likeness of Toho's GODZILLA character are federally registered trademarks belonging to Toho. Copies of Toho's U.S. Registrations for GODZILLA and the GODZILLA character image are enclosed.

    [Omitted long, dull paragraph about the history of Toho...]

    It has come to our attention that you have incorporated the "ZILLA" portion of our client's GODZILLA marks in the name of your "DAVEZILLA.COM" domain name, and that you have included a "reptile-like" character as well as a "monster-like" character, which you refer to as "GODZILLA", on your website accesible through "DAVEZILLA.COM." Please be advised that your use of the GODZILLA mark constitutes a trademark infringement and confuses consumers and the public into believing that your "GODZILLA" character originates from Toho, which it does not. Moreover, your use of the "ZILLA" formative along with imagery associated with GODZILLA is likely to cause the users of your site to believe that the "DAVEZILLA.COM" website is either associated with, authorized by, or sponsored by our client, and demonstrates an attempt by you to trade on the goodwill built up by our client. As such, we request that you remove the objectionable imagery and reference to GODZILLA from your website to eliminate any likelihood of confusion and posibility of an inaccurate affiliation with Toho and GODZILLA.

    We look forward to receiving your prompt reply, with a statement of your intentions, no later than August 16, 2002. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.

    Very truly yours,

    SEYFARTH SHAW

    Jill A. Jacobs

    Wow. Guess the little dragon at the top has to go bye-bye. At least they are letting me keep the domain name. A few inaccuracies: I have, until today, never mentioned Godzilla, nor do I have any imagery of him on this site. Nor do I refer to my logo as Godzilla. It's always been, "That little dragon guy." Could have been a lot worse. Expect a new no changes to the banner and changes a tweak to the colophon. I'm not giving in.
    • by Salsaman (141471) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:05PM (#4063574) Homepage
      Sun, 11 August, 2002, war begining !
      Goodbye little dragon guy!
      [Blog] - Davezilla @ 07:07:43 pm
      re: DAVEZILLA.COM
      Dear Mr. Linabury:

      What happen ? Someone set up us the trademark infringement ! Take off every 'zilla' ! You know what you doing.

      For great justice,

      SEYFARTH SHAW

      Jill A. Jacobs
    • re: Christ Church of God
      Dear Mr. Minister:

      ...

      It has come to our attention that you have incorporated the "GOD" portion of our client's GODZILLA marks in the name of your "Church of God" church name, and that you have included an unstoppable all-powerful being, which you refer to as "GOD", on your publications. Please be advised that your use of the "GOD" formative along with imagery associated with GODZILLA is likely to cause the users of your site to believe that the "Church of God" website is either associated with, authorized by, or sponsored by our client, and demonstrates an attempt by you to trade on the goodwill built up by our client.

      ...

  • God (Score:5, Funny)

    by Raster Burn (213891) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:51PM (#4063395)
    On a related note, God decides to sue Toho for using the word "God" without His permission.
  • by smileyy (11535) <smileyy@fitterhappier.nu> on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:51PM (#4063401) Homepage
    ...but the term "Mozilla" has been associated with Netscape for a long, long time, even before the open source project. In fact, you're likely to see "Mozilla" in most user agent strings, even from non-Netscape browsers.
    • by Omega (1602) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:04PM (#4063555) Homepage
      Almost every graphical web browser's User-Agent string starts with "Mozilla/4.0". So unless they go after Opera, AOL and Microsoft, then they aren't adequately defending their trademark -- hence they no longer own exclusive rights to the trademark.
      • by sterno (16320) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:13PM (#4063659) Homepage
        Here's the thing. Trademark requires that the holder of the trademark actively defend their mark. If they do not do so and it falls into common usage, it's too bad so sad for the trademark holder. So, even if you successfully argue that Mozilla infringed on Godzilla (are these really confusingly similar?), the judge will ask why they have let it exist for the past 10 years without questioning it.
        • by SirSlud (67381) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:47PM (#4063957) Homepage
          Yeah, but we all know that most of the leveraging, actions, and reactions happening in the world today is in no way connected to reality and legality - the world is run on threats now.

          You know what that is? Stupid. It means its become more efficient and cheap to succumb to threats than to see issues through to their proper and (I can't stress this enough) correct conclusion. I have no feelings either which way in this case; what frusterates the FUCK out of me is that we'll likely never get to see who's right, in court.

          Personally, I'm waiting for the laywer industry to reform its traditional garb and start dressing more like jocks and repo men.
  • Wowzilla. (Score:5, Funny)

    by teamhasnoi (554944) <teamhasnoi@@@yahoo...com> on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:51PM (#4063409) Homepage Journal
    That's fuckedzilla. Izilla hopezilla theyzilla don'tzilla comezilla afterzilla mezilla.
  • zilla != Godzilla (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Fastball (91927) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:52PM (#4063413) Journal
    By their claim, Microsoft would be able to file suit against Microtek, Micron, Micromedia, Microware, ... I can see where there is an argument against the reptilian logo, but to parse letters in a non-profit project's title goes too far.
    • Re:zilla != Godzilla (Score:5, Informative)

      by jelwell (2152) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:58PM (#4063477)
      Mozilla is not a non-profit company. See the bug I filed bugzilla, bug 70249 - "Mozilla.org should become a non-profit Organization.". Mozilla is a wholey owned subsidary of AOL Time Warner. Don't be fooled by the smoke and mirrors. Netscape still owns the copyright on Mozilla and owns the Mozilla.org website.

      There's been no activity on the bug for some time.

      You definately have a good point about names, I don't think they have a foot to stand on when it comes to the name alone.
      Joseph Elwell.
    • Problem is that the reptilian logo looks more like either a t-rex or a velociraptor than a guy in a cheesy costume.

      BG

      • Quit reaching, and admit its a good claim.
        Sure, going after a non-profit project is low
        down, but its still in their rights.

        Trademark is not copyright. They have to prove that potential customers of theirs are likely to confuse the mark Mozilla with their Godzilla mark. Fairly difficult, I think. As to the image, pictures of lizards and dinosaurs have been around for a long time. The fact that they have not complained before this will count heavily against them, too.
  • by jelwell (2152) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:53PM (#4063420)
    This is one of the reasons there's no longer a green Mozilla logo, nor can you buy Mozilla dolls anymore. The owners of godzilla came down on Mozilla long ago.
    joe.
  • Too Late (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nathanm (12287) <nathanm&engineer,com> on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:55PM (#4063440)
    Mozilla's been around for what, about 4 years? If this company sat around for that long without defending their trademark, too bad! Any rational, impartial judge (if they exist) would throw this out of court.
    • Not neccesarily true. WWF (The world wildlife fund) just recently won the exclusive rights to it's abbreviation over the WWE (formely World Wrestling Foundation... now World Wrestling Entertainment)

      As WWE campaign famously says "get the F out" ;-)
    • Re:Too Late (Score:5, Informative)

      by bwt (68845) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @04:31PM (#4064859) Homepage
      Indeed, Netscape filed for trademark protection for the term "Mozilla" on 7-July-1995, under serial number 74698316 [uspto.gov].

      However, since 18-July-1997, the status has been "An opposition is now pending at the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board." There has not been a resolution and so "Mozilla" is not a registered trademark.
  • God forbid! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by brooks_talley (86840) <brooksNO@SPAMfrnk.com> on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:55PM (#4063442) Journal
    I feel so sorry for this poor company. Having one of their trademarks lightly referenced in the context of the open source vs. Microsoft battle. Thus keeping the mark in front of not only geeks, but a fair amount of the mainstream as well. Thereby increasing interest in their Godzilla properties, and generally entrenching the -zilla suffix in the not only english, but other languages as well.

    It must be terrible for them, all that free publicity.

    Of course, to retain control of the trademark it might be necessary to come to some licensing agreement, but trying to stamp out the use of -zilla is a serious case of shooting oneself in the foot. Hormel wised up about Spam; you'd think these folks would learn from that example.

    Cheers
    -b
  • also (Score:3, Funny)

    by Jonny Ringo (444580) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:56PM (#4063449)
    The gecko from Geico insurance is getting hassled again by email.
  • by Eberlin (570874) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:57PM (#4063474) Homepage
    ...we need Robert Smith of The Cure to save us now. Nothing like a good ol' roshambo to settle this dispute.
  • by Hobart (32767) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:58PM (#4063479) Homepage Journal

    I recommend the Mozilla project change its mascot to another cute character ...

    Something more approachable, but still computer related ... a mouse would do nicely...

    Since the original name was derived from Mosaic, and the NCSA project is shelved and Spyglass is no more, "Mosaic Mouse" would do nicely...

    OK, sing it with me...

    Who's the browser, Open Sourced, that's made for you and me?
    M O S - A I C
    M O U S E!
  • Not a big deal. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Stephen Samuel (106962) <samuel@bc g r e en.com> on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:58PM (#4063482) Homepage Journal
    In this case, they claim that he actually used the "Godzilla" name, and the image of a Godzilla-like creature. I think that his biggest mistake was not attributing the owners of the trademark he was 'using', and not including something like "used without permission", or "appologies to the {I for get the name} -- owners of the Godzilla trademark".

    For the most part, however, I doubt that people would think that dave was endorsed by the Godzilla trademark owners. Less so, Mozilla which doesn't actually use the "Godzilla" name. There's nothing wrong with parody, or flattery by mimicry. I don't think that there's much reason for fear, as long as the Mozilla group doesn't try to branch into the horror-movie genre.

  • probably too late (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jd142 (129673) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @01:58PM (#4063486) Homepage
    I think that it's too late for Toho. I think that they waited too long and the suffix -zilla has entered the language, much the same way Kleenex has. The only reason they are going up against a little guy first is the obvious: get one guy to cave to show that you were diligent in your protection of your trademark so that when you sue a company with real money, AOL/Time-Warner, you've got a little bit of precedent on your side. But even so I think a) too little too late and b) no way is AOL going to cave.

    Almost sounds as if Toho got bought by the same people who are now claiming the jpeg patent.

  • Oh Shit (Score:5, Funny)

    by aozilla (133143) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:01PM (#4063527) Homepage
    My nick is in trouble.
  • Not going to fly. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mesozoic (134277) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:02PM (#4063529)
    It's going to be a stretch for Toho to prove what it needs to prove: that Mozilla is infringing on a trademark. The words 'Godzilla' are not used anywhere, and the logo is of a different shape and color than Godzilla (it looks more like a T-Rex than anything else). The suffix 'zilla' and the presence of a reptilian image is not enough to shut down a software project. If it were a movie, however, this would be a different issue.

    I'm not a lawyer, though, so anyone with a legal education and a better angle on the subject, feel free to correct.
  • by dschuetz (10924) <slash&david,dasnet,org> on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:03PM (#4063541) Homepage
    Okay, I'll grant you that calling something ".+zilla" and using a dinosaur/dragon-like logo is probably coming close to violating a Godzilla trademark.

    But what ever happened to the concept of a restricted space within which trademarks are (were?) supposed to operate? I had understood that trademarks were only protected within the same general "realm" of a product -- which is how we've got Excel cars and Excel spreadsheets.

    It's seemed to me, with the advent of the modern internet, that all these distinctions have been thrown away, and that the courts are allowing that diminished distinction. So Palm has to stop calling their Pilot a "Pilot" because a pen company complains.

    Does anyone know what exactly is the deal here? Have domain-name disputes finally opened the door for a single, universal, all-encompasing product namespace?

    If someone wants to call their browser Mozilla (or even Godzilla), then they should be able to, because the chances of someone confusing a web browser with a big lizard are pretty darned slim.

    Or have I misunderstood this aspect of (US) trademark law all along?
  • by mocm (141920) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:09PM (#4063612) Homepage
    The zilla is only a relict of a misleading transcription of the ji syllable which is the soft form of shi (or si) in the alternate trasncription.
    Anyway, the zilla could be an allusion to jirasu (to irritate) ;-)
  • Nonsense (Score:3, Funny)

    by sys49152 (100346) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:13PM (#4063660)
    be advised that your use of the GODZILLA mark .. confuses consumers and the public into believing that your "GODZILLA" character originates from Toho

    Nonsense, everyone knows that Godzilla originated in the depths of time and crawled out of the Pacific after the U.S. nuked the Bikini Islands.

    Moreover, your use of the "ZILLA" formative ... is likely to cause the users of your site to believe that the "DAVEZILLA.COM" website is either associated with, authorized by, or sponsored by our client

    This is what is known as a portmanteau word. That is a word that conveys meaning by using parts of other words that have definite associations. Words such as smog (smoke and fog), or, more inline with davezilla, monicagate (Monica and Watergate), infomercial (info and commercial), and Linux (Linus and Unix). Whether this can be construed as trademark infringement is somebody else's call, but I rather think that The Almighty (God) and Homer (Trademark holder of the monster named Scylla) might have something to say about this.

  • Lindows (Score:4, Insightful)

    by d3xt3r (527989) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:15PM (#4063679)
    If Lindows is a not a trademark violation, than certainly neither is Mozilla.

    Mozilla has nothing to do with Godzilla. Godzilla is a fictional character, Mozilla is a web browser and a user-agent. The term "Mozilla" as a user-agent has been around since the early days of Netscape. My guess is that any attempt to sue the Mozilla organization for trademark violation would be laughed out of court.

  • by gelfling (6534) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:15PM (#4063684) Homepage Journal
    The character and the movie is GOJIRA.

    God-zilla is an American Eenglish bastardization. They should at least after the right fucking phoneme.

    how rame.
  • by sdjunky (586961) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:20PM (#4063740)
    Here is Dictionary.com's definition [dictionary.com] of zilla.

    Also, consider that Microsoft didn't win againts Lindows and that's a much closer match since it even pertains to the same kind of item or good e.g. an Operating System
  • by Art Tatum (6890) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:25PM (#4063774) Homepage
    And rename it 'Butthead Japanese Company' instead.
  • by Ironica (124657) <{gro.kcodnoob} {ta} {lexip}> on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:49PM (#4063976) Journal
    While Toho first trademarked [uspto.gov] the Godzilla word mark in 1981, they did not hold a trademark [uspto.gov] on its use in computer software until October of 1994. Mozilla started in "mid-1994" from the best info I've been able to find. I seem to remember someone showing it to me in the spring of that year, though that might have been Mosaic. Neither their first trademark nor the software one have any illustrations or descriptions of a lizard-like monster creature, though; that does not appear to be a part of the trademark. Their most comprehensive trademark [uspto.gov] was registered in 2000, presumably with the launch of the Sony movie. That one *still* doesn't describe godzilla though.

    I'm no trademark attorney, but I'm guessing that, since they're not claiming in the trademark registration that the mark consists of the word + the monster, they don't have a leg to stand on with *zilla claims. Also, it doesn't appear they stopped Bugzilla [uspto.gov] (the cleaning agent, not the software) from registering its trademark in 2000. Milton Bradley has also owned a trademark on Eggzilla [uspto.gov] since 1987.

    All in all, they have a lot of fish to fry if they're going to try to reserve *zilla as their own, including multiple existing or pending trademarks. (Budzilla, Rodzilla, and Speedzilla are all currently published for opposition.)

    I love the Trademark Electronic Search System...
    • Re:Hard to argue (Score:5, Insightful)

      by gengee (124713) <gengis@hawaii.rr.com> on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:04PM (#4063554)
      Excuse me? It's a clear case of fair use. Have corporations really been so successful in pulling the blinds over our collective eyes that people do not take issue with a company claiming ownership of the formative 'zilla' and any remote likeness of a "reptile-like creature?"

      This would be roughly equivalent to the owners of the Chef Boyardee trademark claiming ownership of "Chef" when used in conjunction with any food product:P

      Trademarks are NOT ownership of a word. It is ownership of a brand. Hence, I can call my product "Kleenex" if I'm selling candy. If I'm selling tissue, however, you can bet Kimberly-Clark would come knocking.
      • Re:Hard to argue (Score:5, Informative)

        by seebs (15766) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:40PM (#4063900) Homepage
        "fair use" is a feature of copyright law, and refers to specific kinds of usage (not just "anything I feel like"). Trademark law doesn't have that; you can use the trademarked thing only to refer to the trademarked product. If you were "passing off", or trying to use the name to refer to something *else*, that would be considered a violation. So, for instance, you can make gas caps and say "compatible with Ford Explorer", because you're using their trademark to refer to their product. On the other hand, if you were to create cans of processed meat labeled "SPAN" in yellow letters on a blue background showing a plate of ham-like substance, you would probably be sued, and rightfully so.

        'zilla' is a lot more like "Boyardee" than like "Chef". I certainly can't think of a lot of uses of it before Godzilla showed up.

        Some marks are deemed "famous", such that they get to reserve the whole field. This may be a bad design, but it's how the laws are written.

        Consider this: If I produce a candy called "Ford Bubblegum", no one is going to think it's a car, or that I'm doing it with a license from the car company.

        On the other hand, if I sold kitchen aprons labeled "Boyardee", someone might figure that, while it's not soup, it was clearly trying to take advantage of their fame.

        Here's the question: Would a typical user, confronted with a large dinosaur-like thing that walks on its back legs and has things down its back, and breathes fire, and has a name ending in "zilla", be likely to infer an association between that product and Godzilla?

        Yes, the user would.

        Thus, it's probably a violation.

        IANAL, but for fuck's sake, people, *THINK*. This looks exactly like trying to take advantage of someone else's product name and reputation to make your own product look cooler; in this case, trying to take the "big unstoppable monster" aspect of Godzilla and apply it to a browser. It even shows the traditional fire-breathing thing in the splash screen!
        • Maybe right, however (Score:4, Interesting)

          by einhverfr (238914) <chris.travers@gmail.com> on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:58PM (#4064070) Homepage Journal
          Note that the user agent strings in most browsers say "Mozilla." For example, IE 6 on .NET Server says, "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.2; .NET CLR 1.0.3705)."

          This tells me that Mozilla has become common enough in its own right as distinct from Godzilla. The most they could do would be to try to force a change of mascot, much as it would be funny to see them try to argue "Your honor, we submit that the user agent string in Internet Explorer is in violation of our trademark rights, and demand 1% of all Windows sales revenue."
      • Re:Hard to argue (Score:5, Informative)

        by isaac (2852) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @04:20PM (#4064766)
        Just as Johnson & Johnson lost its grip on "Band-Aid" which is now a synonym for bandage.

        If you think so, just try marketing a bandage called "Band-Aid" - Johnson & Johnson's well-funded legal department would be on your ass directly. Similarly, Kimberly-Clark ain't gonna let you sell "Kleenex" facial tissues. Xerox won't let you market "Xerox" machines. The Thermos company will lay the legal hurt on you if you try to sell vacuum insulated bottles by that name.

        The only former trademarks I can think of that have actually lost their protection are "Asprin" and "Heroin," which were both US trademarks belonging to Bayer AG until 1919 when the IP rights to these two "wonder drugs" were ceded in the Treaty of Versailles, NOT because they became generic terms. Aspirin became a generic term because the trademark was stripped, not the other way around.

        -Isaac

    • Re:Uh oh! (Score:5, Funny)

      by SquadBoy (167263) on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:04PM (#4063564) Homepage Journal
      Man: I now pronounce you President of these United --
      Reporter: Stop the inauguration! I just discovered our President Elect
      got an F in second grade gym class!
      [crows gasps; Lisa is handcuffed]
      Man: In that case I sentence you to a lifetime of horror on Monster
      Island. [to Lisa] Don't worry, it's just a name.
      [Lisa and others are chased by fire-breathing monsters]
      Lisa: He said it was just a name!
      Man: What he meant is that Monster Island is actually a peninsula.
      • Re:Ludicrous (Score:4, Interesting)

        by gengee (124713) <gengis@hawaii.rr.com> on Tuesday August 13 2002, @02:10PM (#4063625)
        Come on, lets be serious davezilla and mozilla were inspired by Godzilla (little dragon guy). While I think that the trademark owners are being totally stupid about this its their right.

        Yes - exactly. It was /inspired/ by Godzilla. But it's /not/ Godzilla. It's Davezilla. Can you honestly say that you could ever possibly confuse the two? That anyone could ever confuse the two? No? Well then there's no trademark infringement, since that is the benchmark.