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WIPO Awards 'Sucks' Domain to Vivendi
Posted by
michael
on Sat Nov 17, 2001 12:24 PM
from the yet-another-travesty dept.
from the yet-another-travesty dept.
Sarcasmo writes: "A WIPO Panel has decided in favor of Vivendi Universal in the dispute over VivendiUniversalSucks.com. The arguments made on Vivendi's behalf are strange, to say the least." It's so unjust as to be farcical. When the domain name holder makes a sarcastic comment that he wasn't making any money off the domain (in contrast to the lawyer who was billing a few hundred dollars per hour to handle the dispute), the esteemed Panel takes that as evidence that he wants to sell the domain (which in itself was already a flimsy plank to call "bad faith"). Kangaroo court is too kind a description. ICANN is currently asking for input on the domain dispute resolution process, so if you've been a victim of the UDRP, now would be a good time to speak up.
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Time for some new domains... (Score:3, Offtopic)
vivendiuniversalreallysucks.com
and maybe even
wiposucks.com
Re:Time for some new domains... (Score:5, Interesting)
well, the com [wiposucks.com] version seems to be owned by sucks500.com, a bulliten board for complaining about things related to corporate america. Wholly appropriate considering that Vivendi probably bought this case. The version [wiposucks.org] is owned by someone upset about a previous dispute that was arbitrated by WIPO, and has a fair amount of information relevent to this case (procedures, etc). Perhaps they would be interested in putting up information on other cases as well.
I have to wonder (conspiracy time) if WIPO wants to set up precedents to have these sites taken down, as well as ICANN itself removing anti-icann sites. (icannsucks.com is also owned by sucks500.com) In fact, there are a lot of people with a lot of money who would be happy if these sorts of sites were given more trouble than private individuals can reasonably deal with. It appears that the group which owns the two .com sites has resited some lawsuits, but how long can they last?
Parent
Re:Time for some new domains... (Score:2)
What if you hated sucksucks.com? Then you would have to buy sucksuckssucks.com? Truely bizarre
Re:Time for some new domains... (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
What about... (Score:2)
http://vivendiuniversal.isverybad.com
Kindly provided by yours truly. Let Vivendi claim they have a trademark on "is", "very" or "bad".
I registered those domains (along with "are" instead of "is", plus the
Re:Time for some new domains... (Score:2, Funny)
Bad faith (Score:3, Insightful)
I am so confused... (Score:4, Funny)
"Microsoft sucks"
"Why do you like MS?"
"Huh??? I hate MS?"
"Oh... It's all so confusingly similar."
www.gostickyourheadinapig.com (Score:2)
Xix.
Seems they can't make up their minds (Score:2, Interesting)
What we really need (Score:5, Interesting)
then this guy could buy vivendiuniversal.sucks, and everyone would be happy.
Re:What we really need (Score:3, Interesting)
Nice try, but at the core of UCANT's rulings is the principle that Jane Surfer is a dribbling AOL-Time-Warner-Microserf who is too stupid to figure anything out and needs to be protected from her own idiocy.
It's not just the "bad guys" who're abusing this. The Worldwide Fund for Nature, nee the World Wildlife Fund (and still known as that in the USA) has won the right to wwf.com, on the basis that the World Wresling Federation name and page is "confusingly similar" to the Worldwide Fund for Nature, and Jane Surfer might get all puzzled and donate her money to the wrong organisation. I kid you not. This is currently under appeal, and for once, I'm on the side of the Rock.
Re:What we really need (Score:2, Interesting)
In other words I'm on the side of the Worldwide Fund for Nature.
Re:What we really need (Score:2)
These companies are not trying to avoid confusion, they are trying to suppress free speech. Successfully, too.
Re:What we really need (Score:2)
awep[ojasf (Score:2, Funny)
[whois.register.com]
The data in Register.com's WHOIS database is provided to you by Register.com for information purposes only, that is, to assist you in obtaining information about or related to a domain name registration record. Register.com makes this information available "as is," and does not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a WHOIS query, you agree that you will use this data only for lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this data to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via direct mail, electronic mail, or by telephone; or (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes that apply to Register.com (or its systems). The compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of this data is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Register.com. Register.com reserves the right to modify these terms at any time. By submitting this query, you agree to abide by these terms.
Organization:
Secaucus Group Inc
Secaucus Group Inc
295 Greenwich Street (Suite 184)
New York, NY 10007
US
Phone: (973) 503 1785
Email: dparisi@garden.net
Registrar Name....: Register.com
Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
Registrar Homepage: http://www.register.com
Domain Name: WIPOSUCKS.COM
Created on..............: Mon, Apr 19, 1999
Expires on..............: Fri, Apr 19, 2002
Record last updated on..: Fri, Feb 23, 2001
Administrative Contact:
Secaucus Group Inc
Secaucus Group Inc
295 Greenwich Street (Suite 184)
New York, NY 10007
US
Phone: (973) 503 1785
Email: dparisi@garden.net
Technical Contact:
Dan Parisi
Dan Parisi
295 Greenwich Street (Suite 184)
New York, NY 10007
US
Phone: (973) 503 1785
Email: dparisi@garden.net
Zone Contact:
Dan Parisi
Dan Parisi
295 Greenwich Street (Suite 184)
New York, NY 10007
US
Phone: (973) 503 1785
Email: dparisi@garden.net
The Bastards! (Score:5, Insightful)
Porn stars and blackholes (Score:2, Informative)
Media Monopoly (Score:4, Interesting)
In the long term, will domain name shortage be a real and continuing problem?
Just putting
Corporate dominance of public discourse is not a new problem. All the free access to domain names in the world will not overcome the fact that most of what most people see/read/hear is controlled by a relatively small group of greedy people. The world is poorer for it, but this is old news.
Try reading some pulped tree products for a great discussion of these problems. I'd start with Ben Bagdikian's classic, The Media Monopoly-- http://www.commoncouragepress.com/bagdikian_monop
You'll find some more pressing media control issues than "...sucks.com".
Re:Media Monopoly (Score:2, Insightful)
I often have to wonder if either ICANN or WIPO have heard of the term "integrity". Can anyone remember when ICANN's mandate was to be democratically elected? Seems like such a long time ago.
Re:Media Monopoly (Score:2)
Um.. I don't think that the domain name was the sum total of the criticism. I'd hazard a guess that there was some more in-depth criticism on the actual web page.
Re:Media Monopoly (Score:2)
How condescending of you to bestow your opinion on us. Would you also argue that any company that makes poor or light use of a domain shouldn't be allowed to have it? You might want to ponder that foosucks.bar is the de-facto protest address of choice for groups with real grievances, and it's as well to protect that on freedom of speech grounds if no other.
Re:Media Monopoly (Score:2)
That's right, terrorism is the new problem, and all this talk of corporate dominance is just distracting us from the real challenge: terrorismsucks.com!
Re:Media Monopoly (Score:3, Funny)
The record of your favorite arbiter: (Score:2, Informative)
Use the top right hand drop box.
Alan L. Limbury, Presiding Panelist
Sir Ian Barker, Panelist
David E. Sorkin, Panelist, (Dissenting in this case)
Note that Sorkin doesn't get to arbitrate many cases on his own.
Things that make you go hmmmm.
Customer Confusion (Score:3, Insightful)
On Primus and Sucking... (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, kinda. Back in the late 80s/early 90s, Primus fans used the term "sucks" in an ironic fashion. It was kind of an inside joke -- ie, Primus fans would have bumper stickers that said "PRIMUS SUCKS", t-shirts etc. It was a heavily sarcastic way [fortunecity.com] of showing your fanness, typical of the early 90's rejection of corporate culture (grunge, etc.-- Ah, take a moment to remember the glory days before all TV and advertising was wry and tongue-in-cheek and corporate marketers didn't know how to handle "Generation X".)
Seeing as it was originally a joke slogan meant to confuse non-"true" Primus fans, it makes no sense to use it as an example of how the general public might get confused-- that was the whole point!
W
Did ANYONE read the decision? (Score:5, Informative)
It is common ground that no use was made of the disputed domain name between the date of registration, February 27, 2001, and the date when notice of the dispute was given to the Respondents by way of "cease and desist" letter on July 26, 2001.
That's right, it was dead space. The whole redirect to geektivism is ex post fact, folks. Capitolizing on /. eyeballs, if you will.
While I think the WIPO decision is a laughable miscarriage of Justice*, I do find it a bit difficult to feel really high and mighty and start saying, "oh, how terribly awful." Even the fellow who registered the thing seems to have a good sense of humor about this whole joke.
Personally, I would wager that he's feeling the same way I am about the whole charade. Vivendi's response and the fact they actually convinced WIPO to give them the domain name is really just prooving this guy's point.
Cheers,
- RLJ
* Justice? These guys are lawyers, come on now...
There are merits here... (Score:2, Insightful)
If I decided to call my bookstore "Barnes and Noble Bites" should I be forced to pick a new name? Yes.
If I decided to starta phone company called "AT&T Blows" should I be forced to use something else? Yes.
Then why shouldn't the same standard be applied to websites? Why shouldn't trademarks be protected? I'm not a fan of being hampered in life by the law, being oppressed by monopolistic behavior, or having commercialism shoved down my throat. However, I believe in the right to have my own name and not have someone slander said name.
Re:There are merits here... (Score:3, Informative)
Because what you suggest isn't protecting trademarks. No, you can't start a store called "McDonald's Sucks". Yes, you can put up a sign saying "McDonald's Sucks" and tell people why you think they suck. You can't spread falsehoods, but if you stick to the truth McDonald's can't legally touch you.
This is the fallacy that the UDRP falls into: the assumption that only trademark gives a valid claim to a name. It's what leads to decisions that a person doesn't have the right to use their own name for a Web site about themselves.
Re:There are merits here... (Score:2)
If only this were true. You may have already read it, but for anybody who hasn't had the chance to read McLibel [mcspotlight.org] it's a fascinating investigation into the inadequacies of the British legal system in defamation cases.
Basically two very poor people got sued by McDonalds. These two people said things like "McDonalds food it not nutritous" and "McDonalds beef is grown on land that was previously rainforests". Nothing to dispute there, right?
McDonalds argued that anything with nutrients is nutritous: this definition covered paper, soil, and so on. They also argued that because the forests hadn't received rainfall 365 days a year they were not rainforests.
The judge agreed with this nonsense, ignored the experts brought in by the defendants, and somehow allowed his common sense to slip far enough to rule against the two very poor people.
Telling the truth is not a legal defence. If you have enough money - as McDonalds did - then you get to write your own laws.
Re:There are merits here... (Score:3)
Unfortunately you are right. This day and age a common person has no options other then violence. If the courts are corrupted, the politicians are corrupted, the media is corrupted what else is there to do except take arms (or chemicals or bacteria).
Re:There are merits here... (Score:2)
No merits, just shilling and astroturfing (Score:2)
No, the person to whome you replied is merely shilling for WIPO and/or Vivendi Universal (who does suck, greatly). Perhaps they have even been paid to, as well known Microsoft astroturfers here and on K5 have been observed doing, or perhaps this person (or a close friend) have a vested interest in either this case in particular or the corrupt process in general.
Or perhaps that person really is as stupid as they appear, as your sarcastic response amply demonstrates their argument to be.
Re:There are merits here... (Score:3, Insightful)
If I title a magazine article "weez75 Sucks" you'd come after me? I'm not selling what you're selling in competition with you, I'm just reviewing your business and character. If we get to a world where it infringes your property to mention your name in a noncomplimentary context, then, weez75, because you will have helped in your insignificant way to get us there, what I'll do if I catch up with you will also be unspeakable.
ICANN -- Just say "No, thanks" (Score:5, Informative)
That ruling was worth reading... (Score:5, Informative)
Bravo!
For those who lost their "sucks" domain (Score:4, Funny)
Someone who is more enterprising than myself could set up some more 3rd level delegations, like vivendiuniversalsucks.mydick.com, vivendiuniversalsucks.greencanalwater.com, vivendiuniversalsucks.theyjustsuckperiod.com, and so on...
WIPO and ICANN have no authority over 3rd level delegations, as far as I know. But that might be an interesting battle if they were to try to take away a domain that was used in this way.
Re:For those who lost their "sucks" domain (Score:2)
Someone who is more enterprising than myself could set up some more 3rd level delegations, like [...] vivendiuniversalsucks.theyjustsuckperiod.com...
Hey, maybe this is the way to get that old great online humor site [suck.com] back in the black! Offer subdomains to the highest bidding malcontent.
Possible alternative domains (Score:2)
Or, for the more creative types:
vivendisucksuniversally.com
Would non-English speakers be confused and think this is a Vivendi Universal site? And if some would be confused, would it just be really stupid non-English speakers who automatically assume that any domain containing the strings "vivendi" and "universal" must be official Vivendi Universal sites? At what point does individual stupidity become the responsibility of the individual and not the domain owner?
geektivism needs to put it's hat out for law fees (Score:2, Informative)
To quote ICANN's own website:
Decisions under the Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy are subject to challenge by court action. The long list of their outrageous abuses of power can, still, be found here [icann.org] although the text of this particular decision isn't on that page yet, it's back, as I'm sure someone else has posted and I just missed it here [geektivism.com].
So, we collect some money and make some phone calls to the ACLU and bring ICANN to court. This is a surrealistic violation of ICANN's own charter, not to mention of our sensibilities, and even if we lose (which we probably will) we should take it to court to generate bad press for them.
Re:geektivism needs to put it's hat out for law fe (Score:2)
This is a good idea. Courts have upheld the "unauthorized" use of trademarks for parody and criticizm. However, each former domain holder would need to sue ICANN, unless a court granted class-action status to such a case. Either way, you're looking at mucho denerio required for such a case.
More info on VivendiUniversalsucks.com UDRP crap (Score:2, Interesting)
What's incredibly disturbing about this opinion is that there was a perfectly legitimate, NON-COMMERCIAL gripe site up at VIVENDIUNIVERSALSUCKS.COM, which aired the opinions of both myself and David Sallen, the owner of the domain. Rather than recognizing this, and David Sallen's and my free speach rights, the UDRP panel took it upon itself to decide that our critical free speech just wasn't good enough in it's opinion. This is absolute garbage, plain and simple.
In any event, if anyone wants to take a look at David's response to the complaint in this matter, I've posted it at Geektivism [geektivism.com]. Feel free to drop by and leave comments about this case. I will be updating my site regularly to reflect ongoing news in this atrocity of a UDRP decision.
MD
Domain squatter...ICANN just missed the squattee (Score:2)
Is he a squatter? Of course he is. But he's not registering these domains in bad faith to shake down the entities which purportedly "suck", he's doing it to shake down the pissed-off people who get burned by Corporation X and want to put up a "sucks" site.
The simple way to fight stupid WIPO rulings. (Score:2, Insightful)
Filing a complaint with ICANN costs $1000 or more. Add to this the cost of lawyers required to draw up the complaint and a company like Vivendi Universal is probably looking at $5000 to take the domain name.
Why not simply register a new name and wait for Vivendi Universal to get around to taking that one as well. Then repeat the process until you get bored or Vivendi runs out of money. Remember it costs a company about 100 times more to take a domain from someone as it does to initially register it. Under a system like this a few geeks could easily wage a guerrilla war against any opponent and either make them stop taking domain names, or drive them into bankruptcy.
So if Vivendi Universal now owns vivendiuniversalsucks.com here are a very short list of a few similar domains might still be available. With a little imagination I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of possible domains that embody the basic idea that "Vivendi Universal Sucks".
vivendiuniversalreallysucks.com
vivendiuniversalreallyreallysucks.com
vivendiuniversalsucksbad.com
vivendiuniversalreallysucksbad.com
vivendi-universal-really-sucks-bad.com
vivendi-universal-really-really-sucks-bad.com
vivendiuniversal-reallyreally-sucksbad.com
etc...
That would be justified if... (Score:3, Insightful)
...non-english speaking people would be going to the VivendiUniversal.com site in the first place. Since the whole site is English, I highly doubt that.
Change English (Score:2, Funny)
the Panel has found that non-English speaking Internet users would be likely to attach no significance to the appended word 'sucks' and would therefore regard the disputed domain name as conveying an association with the Complainant.
Hmm, the VivendiUniversialSucks.com site starts with: .....
Why Does Vivendi/Universal Suck?
Vivendi is a large, behemoth corporation that exists merely
It's in English. So non-English speakers could actually have some problems reading the site and it is therefore irrelevant if they know what 'sucks' mean. The site also does not feature any VU logos but rants about conglomerates like Vivendi. Surely any reader will immediatly think that it is an official VU site.
I guess that WIPO would like to have an Orwellian version of English with domain names like "VivendiUniversialDoublePlusUngood.com"
Re:It's a fair decision. (Score:2, Insightful)
I always try visiting the
BTW Is there anything but tradition keeping us attached to the ICANN? Couldn't any group set up alternative root servers and ask everyone to point to them? If the group had consistent rules and an effective feedback process we might all join it and leave the icann to serve the
You could donate fairnamessucks.com to icann
Re:Primus?? (Score:2, Informative)
The DNS /IS/ the phone directory (Score:2, Informative)
The only true solution would be to eliminate money in the world and move to a non-magic-fish-based economy. Ideally, we'd all be practicing Utopian Socialism, but unfortunately people are inherently greedy and can't practice such a system without trying to take advantage of each other.