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A Number For Everything
Posted by
timothy
on Mon Sep 03, 2001 08:03 PM
from the at-least-there's-no-potential-for-abuse dept.
from the at-least-there's-no-potential-for-abuse dept.
jtcampbell writes: "Whilst reading the Times today I found this article about a U.S. government idea to give everyone a unique 'ENUM,' that serves as a universal phone number, email address, and fax number. Quite a cool idea, but will everyone adopt the standard? besides, i thought we left numeric email addresses with compuserve a few years back. And remembering these 11 digit numbers could be fun ..."
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Universal SPAM!? (Score:3, Insightful)
Easy to safeguard against this (Score:3, Insightful)
1) No message to be delivered to an ENUM unless it's from another ENUM
2) No interference with existing email addresses - allow these to keep being used
3) Allow ENUM users to set 'privacy policies' on their ENUM, including 'no unsolicited promotional material'. Sending spam to an ENUM in defiance of applicable policies to be a criminal offense.
Re:Easy to safeguard against this (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Easy to safeguard against this (Score:3, Interesting)
So additional legislation in this area is largely unnecessary-- not to mention that I personally agree with it being a free speech issue. It's a hard line to draw. If we make a rule like "your email cannot contain a specific offer to sell something" then spammers will just be creative and use words that get around any sale offers. At some point on the grey scale, you get to where your friend can't send you an email invitation to go out to lunch because that is a commercial activity involving buying stuff.
I put this sort of legislation (anti-spam) in the same category as COPA and the DMCA. Too hard to be Constitutional to even bother with. What we don't need is more complex laws.
We need to educate users on email filtering and get them to realize that replying or even reading obvious spam are bad ideas (and thanks to Outlook all they have to do is open the email to be tagged as having read the email-- and if they click on a link in the email, they are being tracked as though the email were just another webpage). Spam must be useful to spammers because the public is not equipped to make it irrelevant. But, of course, those idiots from "Campus Crusade for Christ" are always on the street corners yelling or passing out their endless stream of tracts despite no result, too-- so maybe it's just one of those things we have to deal with.
It isn't a US govt scheme (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It isn't a US govt scheme (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:It isn't a US govt scheme ...bah! (Score:2)
It's already happened... (Score:5, Informative)
Any US Citizens here _not_ have their SSNs memorized? Raise your hands. I didn't really think so. Guess what, to Government, you are a number!
(There was some lip-service given to "restricting use" and "preventing abuse" decades ago, but it's been forgotten for the utility of SSN identifiers.)
Too late!
AFAIK, it's not illegal in the US not to have a SSN: it's just illegal to attend most schools, serve in the military, or work for taxable wages without one.
Of course it's also possible to acquire _more_ numbers - if you're ever arrested, you'll get a case number (if convicted and sentenced to jail or prison, you'll get an inmate number too); if sued in civil court, you'll get a docket number, etc., etc. But those happen if you break the law or piss someone off...
But you have more numbers, even if you're an upstanding gentle citizen: drivers license, credit cards, bank accounts, phone number, cellphone, et al.
Bottom line, I think a case can be made for a UIN (Universal Identification Number), for two reasons: (1) it will simplify so many mundane things, from communications (live and electronic) through public records and commercial transactions, and (2) it will require revising almost all the record keeping systems extant, boosting the economy as a great successor to the Y2K convulsion, a good way to get 250,000+ programmers re-employed!
Parent
Re:It isn't a US govt scheme (Score:3, Funny)
Since the entire population of Luxembourg is only 35 the devising of such a scheme can hardly have taxed the inventor.
Re:It isn't a US govt scheme (Score:3, Funny)
Thank you for your input, Slashdot user #202465.
Your sentiments have been duly recorded for posterity in comment #2251343.
ENUM, or new SSN? Sure!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
What about identity theft? (Score:3, Interesting)
Speaking of which, I don't think SSNs can be replaced if stolen...maybe if you're in the Witness Protection Program...
Re:What about identity theft? (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically the government officals I dealt with were mostly saying: "it cant be a duplicate- you must have stolen his or vice-versa.. double check your number with your original card..".
After *months* of that, I simply got him to come with me to a main office of the SSA and went to the person who could authorize it, and forced him to look at the disparity. Even then he was hesitant, and had to call his superiors to find an answer.
The main problem was apparently that most of the systems that I had given my SSN to over the year (government systems, that is) are hard-coded to accept SSN's as the primary key, and that changing it requires going in by hand and sorting out the good and bad keys manually. It tooks several months, but basically things are normal.
EXCEPT for the hundreds of places that have my old SSN on record, and now need to change them. Try telling your bank that your SSN has changed - it will mess their entire world up.
Parent
Re:What about identity theft? (Score:5, Funny)
Prof: So, of these fields for the employee database, which would you use as the primary key: SSN, LAST_NAME, FIRST_NAME, or STREET_ADDRESS?
Me: None of the above.
Prof: Oh? The main requirements for a primary key is that the field be unique, and that the field not change. The SSN seems to fit that bill doesn't it?
Me: No, not everyone has a SSN.
Prof: This is an *employee* database. Of course they're all going to have SSNs.
Me: But these are not in anywway guarnteed to be unique or not change.
Prof: Oh, you're just talking silly things. Of course they're not going to change or be unique.
Me: Do YOU trust the government that much?
Prof: Stop being ridiculous.
So, you see... I *was* right!!! Heh.
Parent
Changing numbers (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Changing numbers (Score:2, Funny)
Of course not! This way you can always be spammed, AND Microsoft can always keep track of you!
Ehhh. (Score:2, Insightful)
Kanji is the way to go! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Kanji is the way to go! (Score:4, Funny)
60,000^3 = 216 Trillion combinations.
Chinese people typically have 3-character names. A one-character family name and a two-character first name.
So all we really need to do is give everyone on Earth a unique Chinese name! And since the characters might be hard to remember, you can tattoo it on their foreheads so the won't forget it.
I know Southern Baptists especially will just love this idea!
Parent
Think, child! (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, I'm sure you don't remember lots of (up to) 12 digit sequences that already exist, but have no problems remembering things like 'slashdot.org' and 'www.userfriendly.org'. As in the Internet, so with life. If you want to do this right, you'd have some form of "Personal Name System" to act as an equivalent to the "Domain Name System" we already seem to use quite successfully.
And yet another useless golden goose hits the net! (Score:2)
Interesting but what if (Score:2, Insightful)
IPV6 (Score:2, Interesting)
Not such a good idea. (Score:5, Funny)
The problem with that is that it opens you up to two things: abuse and honest mistakes. Both for obvious reasons would be real problems.
Example. The credit agency in Canada seems to think I owe BMW money for a car. That is long gone (when the lease ended, I sold that car and bought a different make). Still, it's well neigh impossible to get that off the record. Now imagine everyone had that info!
And another example. I recently changed medical insuramce companies at work, and that needed an AIDS test. Negative, I am happy to say. But if it had not been: if all these systems had been tied together (as they will be soon, with one number) that information would quite easily have got back to the bank, or the employer, etc.
I think we need to be very careful indeed with systems that make it easier for people bad or good to track us and what we do.
Who is Number One? (Score:3, Funny)
Slave New World (Score:2)
Sort the names out first ... (Score:3, Insightful)
The following is a sample of people who might need more than one identity:
- Battered wives hiding from husbands.
- Witness protection programs
- Whistle-Blowers and others wanting to be semi-anomonious
- People having strong gender dysphoria, wishing to have a foot in each gender. [Yes, it's a real condition that has a high suicide rate, because the mind and body don't get along that well.]
So we should consider the identity issues before we start slamming other doors first.What about home addresses??? (Score:3, Interesting)
I've long wished that the postal system would assign everyone a unique number, and if someone wanted to send you something, they'd address it to that number instead of some street address. The mail is already routed by computers, so it'd be easy for those computers to look up that number, correllate it to your current physical address, and send it there.
This would really be helpful if you move a lot. Right now, you have to file a change of address form, which isn't completely reliable, and that only lasts a few months. After that, if someone hasn't been informed of your new address, it'll go to your old address. There's just no excuse for this any more.
Re:What about home addresses??? (Score:2, Interesting)
All of the problems that programmers have with pointers would immediately jump into the real world.
Were talkin' the Post Office here. Not ... (Score:2)
I'm mobile and its my responsibility to pick up my mail and amswer my phone. Its not the phone company's, or the bank's, or my 401k's or the government's hassle where I am, just as long as they can get in touch with me.
You want to move around, go ahead and move around but leave a stable point of reference and you'll have no problems with anybody.
Social Security Numbers and the Real Problem (Score:2)
I've memorized my social security number, and I don't even use it on a regular (everyday/week) basis. The numbers are not the problem.
The real problem is the fact that every right to privacy group would scream bloody murder. Have you seen people's reactions to what they did at the Super Bowl last year? The cameras that find felons in the crowd? I didn't care about that, I mean, finding felons isn't a bad thing.
However, this makes me a little apprehensive. Ever read 1984 by Orwell? This calls that to mind. With everything being wireless now it would be easy for the government (the NSA already monitors practically every electronic signal in the world) to know that:
Number 12345678901: Cellular phone call from 8th and Maple. Withdrew $50 from ATM on corner of 9th and Maple.
Etc.
I'm sure extremist are already envisioning numbers tatooed on people's foreheads. I don't think that would happen, but if this number became the only means of ID I would move to Ireland. (Dual citizenships are cool).
Hrrm.... (Score:2)
I am not a number! (Score:2)
I can't imagine an easier way to welcome in a brave new world of tyranny and oppression than this.
Here at the First Federated National Bank, you're not just a number. You're four numbers, a dash, three letters, four more numbers...
Revelations 13:16 - 18 (Score:5, Interesting)
17: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18: Here is wisdom, Let him that have understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (666)
Someone was going to post this eventually.
There goes all my karma
Re:Revelations 13:16 - 18 (Score:3, Insightful)
True enough.
Although this goes back to the ancient paranoia of big government of any kind. although originally this was ancient Rome.
There is a large community of people who are always going to oppose things like this just for this specific reason.
Think of what MS could do with this sort of Government Standard, for example.
It all does come down to a matter of trust. and sadly, the number of people and organizations that we normally can trust implicity with this sort of thing are tragically few.
Until then, this sort of thing is probably a bad idea. Just because of the problem of trust, and the few bad apples.
- - -
Radio Free Nation [radiofreenation.com]
If You have the Story, We have the Soap Box
Re:Revelations 13:16 - 18 (Score:4, Offtopic)
Approximate number of the Beast
DCLXVI
Roman numeral of the Beast
666.0000
Number of the High Precision Beast
0.666
Number of the Millibeast
/ 666
Beast Common Denominator
(-666) ^ (1/2)
Imaginary number of the Beast
6.66 e3
Floating point Beast
1010011010
Binary of the Beast
6, uh... what was that number again?
Number of the Blonde Beast
1-666
Area code of the Beast
00666
Zip code of the Beast
666mph
The speed limit of the Beast
$665.95
Retail price of the Beast
$699.25
Price of the Beast plus 5% state sales tax
$769.95
Price of the Beast with all accessories and replacement soul
$656.66
Walmart price of the Beast
$646.66
Next week's Walmart price of the Beast
Phillips 666
Gasoline of the Beast
Route 666
Way of the Beast
666 F
Oven temperature for roast Beast
666k
Retirement plan of the Beast
666 mg
Recommended Minimum Daily Requirement of Beast
6.66 %
5 year CD interest rate at First Beast of Hell National Bank, $666 minimum deposit.
$666/hr
Beast's lawyer's billing rate
Lotus 6-6-6
Spreadsheet of the Beast
Word 6.66
Word Processor of the Beast
i66686
CPU of the Beast
666i
BMW of the Beast
DSM-666 (revised)
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the Beast
1232 Octal, Apt. 29A
Beast's hexed address
668
Next-door neighbor of the Beast
333
The semi-Christ
665.9997856
The Number of the Beast on a Pentium
Due credit [geocities.com].
Parent
Re:Revelations 13:16 - 18 (Score:5, Funny)
When I worked at Packard Bell tech support, my friend got a call from a woman who was distraught that her AUTOEXEC.BAT file was exactly 666 kilobytes. My friend had her edit the file and add
REM SATAN I CAST THEE OUT
to the end of the file. Did a DIR and checked the filesize -- 682k (or something like that.) Problem solved. The woman said "thank you" and hung up.
Parent
How about universal number portability? (Score:2)
For example, I've had a cell phone with SprintPCS for several years. Most everybody I know or do business with calls me on my Sprint number.
So if I want to switch to Verizon or Nextel or Cingular or Voicestream I lose my number. Plus, the cell phone is not listed in the phone book so people I don't talk to often will have trouble getting a hold of me.
Being able to xfer your number across company boundaries, even if it cost more money would be a worthwhile thing.
DNS link? (Score:2)
Nameber - Ira Levin's This Perfect Day (Score:2)
In Ira Levin's sci-fi novel, This Perfect Day, everyone was genetically homogenized, and was known by a nameber . They hailed a government run by Uni, a massive computer.
- "Listen, Li RM35M26J449988WXYZ," Papa Jan said. "Listen. I'm going to tell you something fantastic, incredible. In my day--are you listening?--in my day there were
- over twenty different names for boys alone! Would you believe it? Love of Family, it's the truth. There was 'Jan,' and 'John,' and 'Amu,' and 'Lev.' 'Higa,' and 'Mike'! 'Tonio'! And in my father's time there were even more, maybe forty or fifty! Isn't that ridiculous? All those different names when members themselves are exactly the same and interchangeable? Isn't that the silliest thing you ever heard of?"
Thank you. No, Thank Uni. A pretty decent "hero rebels against the system" kind of story, worth the read. Written in 1969.And Chip nodded, confused, feeling that Papa Jan meant the opposite, that somehow it wasn't silly and ridiculous to have forty or fifty different names for boys alone.
"Look at them!" Papa Jan said, taking Chip's hand and walking on with him--through Unity Park to the Wei's Birthday parade. "Exactly the same! Isn't it marvelous? Hair the same; boys, girls, all the same. Like peas in a pod. Isn't it fine? Isn't it top speed?"
My Mother... (Score:3, Insightful)
Sigh.
Multiple Identities (Score:3, Insightful)
I also have a cell phone, and I'm very careful with whom I give that number. There are some people that I absolutely want to have it; there are other people that, under no circumstances, would I want them to have it. It's the same at work. I give some people my direct desk extension, and I send some people through the secretary. Having a universal access number like that could cause no end of grief for people, and eliminate one of the great ways of escaping contact when that's necessary.
Also, IIRC (and I'm sorry, but I don't feel like checking this out), I thought that originally it was illegal to use a SSN to track anything other than Social Security. Of course, people use it for everything now, but I'm not so sure that's a good idea.
My $.02
Read the RFC, See the Movie... (Score:2, Informative)
For people who like facts with their uninformed speculation.
We doan' need no stinkin' DNS... 216.211.192.203 (Score:2)
Then again, it could just be a made up number. But you won't care either way. You'll be too busy "moo"ing for me.
How about just using my fuckin' finger-prints? (And the differences in skin temperature between the different parts of the print?)
Security based on what can be counterfeited is no security at all. Base it on something existential and you might have a chance.
Who's the fuckin' imbecile of a post-pubescent, pre-menopausal, unpreoccupied, '4F', tea-totaling bitch who came up with that shit.
I know people who can't remember if its their third or fourth martini. A four didit PIN number at the ATM dictates whether they buy or bum another round.
11 digits... Yeah right.
This already exists (Score:3, Troll)
In the UK, we can already get "personal numbers" which you can have redirected to wherever you are. There's no reason why companies in other countries can't do the same thing.
That gives you all the benefits of unique personal numbering without many of the SSN/Big Brother/Brave New World/buzzword-X privacy concerns.
Gerv
Imagine the spam! (Score:2)
IPs get this treatment regularly (think portscans) but an IP is just a gateway to services, not actual communication.
This sort of numbering is a Bad Thing, even beyond the obvious Mark of the Beast problems.
666@everybody.us (Score:2)
Anyone else suspect maybe this is just a big scheme to use the .us TLD for something besides low-rent local government Web sites? I bet the Postal Service is connected to this idea somehow, if it's for real.
What is wrong with authors... (Score:2)
From the article...
Just say, 100 Billion combinations...
And in the second part of the paragraph... if each country uses it's own area codes, it would decrease, not increase the combinations...
Re:ICQ (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:ICQ (Score:3, Insightful)