Slashdot Log In
Sklyarov Released On $50,000 Bail
Posted by
timothy
on Mon Aug 06, 2001 02:49 PM
from the roaming-the-streets-with-innocent-muggers-and-rapists dept.
from the roaming-the-streets-with-innocent-muggers-and-rapists dept.
Mike Schiraldi was the first to write about Dmitry Sklyarov's release from jail, even before it happened: "According to this live report from the courtroom, Dmitri will probably be out of jail real soon now. Of course, he still won't be allowed to leave Northern California, but it's a start ..." Soon after, inaneboy pointed out this Reuters story on yahoo which says that Sklyarov has been released, on 50,000 dollars bail, raised by his employer, ElcomSoft.
phalse phace wrote to say that the EFF has just posted an announcement as well as some background.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
I was there, where do I send pictures? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I was there, where do I send pictures? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Very indicative of our society today... (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh well, I guess I'm just an eternal cyncic. Still, I'm very glad this happened, and hopefully he'll be able to get on with his life ASAP. Props to his employer for raising the cash. Somehow I doubt Adobe would ever do the right thing and reimburse them. I must say this whole experience has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth regarding Adobe.... I'll make sure never to purchase any of their products, and reccomend the same to any of my employers/employees/anyone.
Re:Very indicative of our society today... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Very indicative of our society today... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Very indicative of our society today... (Score:5, Insightful)
IMHO, doing the right thing would be dropping the charges and letting him go home.
Parent
man (Score:5, Funny)
Re:man (Score:4, Funny)
Not to mention all the slashdot articles he's gonna have to read about himself...
Parent
Re:man (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
ThinkGeek Is In Trouble... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:ThinkGeek Is In Trouble... (Score:3, Informative)
He is not free, just has a much bigger cell... (Score:4, Insightful)
Ummm, he is most certainly not free. He is just out on bond awaiting trial. He has no passport, and no freedom of movement (he can't leave California, and he most certainly can't go home to Russia).
Yes, this is an improvement of his general situation, but this is far from over. He still faces the possibility of hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and years in prison.
For now, he just has a much bigger jail cell.
Parent
Adobe (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Adobe (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Adobe (Score:4, Insightful)
slashdotters.
good lord. You can't commit perjury unless you're IN COURT.
the best Sklyarov could get against them is maybe some petty-ante little charge like laying a false complaint.
anyway, if he shows to the trial, even if he's convicted, Elcomsoft gets its money back. It's being held by the bail bondsman now. Nobody can touch it unless he jumps.
he may have a case against the California D.A. for malicious prosecution though. And get this through your legally-untrained skull: it's the federal government who's holding him. Adobe set the ball in motion, but they're not the ones that're doing anything now.
the next time we should discuss Adobe is when their employees are called to the stand. That's when we find out where they really stand on the issues. Right now they can't do anything - good or bad.
Parent
Congrats to reuters (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, the fact that he's a Russian (read "commie") coder (read "hacker") can, and may, get played against him in the press to no end, so it's nice just to see those little words, "legal in Russia," that should humble the cretins who pushed this misguided law.
"Ah, for the freedoms of Mother Russia..." *sigh*
now we get to the real question... (Score:3, Funny)
Which earnestly solicits the question "may he code [eff.org]???"
A couple SF Chronicle articles (Score:4, Informative)
Here are a couple new SF Chronicle articles of interest:
Re:A couple SF Chronicle articles (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:A couple SF Chronicle articles (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Legislating profits? (Score:4, Funny)
they'll never be able to make money selling electronic books.
Gee. I wonder if I can get the U.S. Congress to pass a law that says I have to be able to make a profit, no matter what stupid business I decide to get into.
Parent
Perpetual copyright and "Happy Birthday to You" (Score:5, Interesting)
My favorite example of the absurdity of perpetual copyright is the song "Happy Birthday to You", composed by Kentucky schoolteacher Mildred Hill in 1859. Her sister Patty wrote lyrics and first published it as "Good Morning to All" in "Song Stories of the Kindergarten" in 1893. Mildred died penniless in 1916.
In 1924, Robert H. Coleman republished the song without permission, adding a second "Happy Birthday to You" verse. The surviving Hill sisters sued and the song was finally copyrighted in 1935.
Of course, the sisters aren't collecting royalties any longer. The copyright is now owned by AOL/Time Warner, and still garnerting about $2 million in royalties each year as of about 5 years ago (which is why television programs usually resort to "For He's A Jolly Good Fellow" instead). If Disney continues to get copyright extension bills passed every 20 years, the copyright on this simple 19th century folksong will never expire.
The Constitution originally intended "to promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries". But death plus 95 years? To what end, encouraging Mildred Hill to compose more songs?
>> I knew that she had totally lost it when I suggested that the heirs of William Shakespear might complain and demand royalties for plays written by the great bard. She thought it was a good idea and was trying to decide how we should go about paying those royalties...
Good job getting your mother to think about the logistics of awarding Shakespeare's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-g
Parent
Party (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Party (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Party (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Party (Score:3, Informative)
Part of the conditions with which Dmitry was allowed out on bail (even though he is a foreign national) was because the defense had arranged for a "custodian", someone at whose home he will stay who accepts some responsibilities under the arrangement. The judge briefly questioned the custodian before accepting him. The deal had already been agreed upon between the prosecutors and the defense so the judge just approved it.
The custodian is a Russian immigrant who has lived in Cupertino (a city adjacent to San Jose on the western side of Silicon Valley, best known as home of Apple Computer) for 8 years.
Good. (Score:5, Interesting)
The message our lawmakers are sending to hackers is clear; leave the copy protection alone and instead just beat the f*cking shit out of the copyright holder.
I hope Dimitry flees. There won't be any justice for him here.
The problem with the Reuters story... (Score:5, Insightful)
Overall, I think it's a reasonable story, and not slanted. But the average reader (side-note: how much do we think this will be picked up by the mass-circulation papers?) will end up thinking that this is a symptom of the decline of the Russian ex-empire in that it's legal to pirate CDs there. The reality, of course, is the reverse: it's legal to make a fair-use backup for your own purposes, as opposed to out-and-out piracy, and that is what Sklyarov's software addresses.
So he can't leave the STATE of Northern California (Score:3, Funny)
Props to him on his bold defense of international freedom of speech.
-Ben
If he knows whats good for him... (Score:3, Insightful)
What gets me is (Score:5, Insightful)
The last time I checked, even though the west won ther cold war US law was NOT the Law of the Land in Russia.
There is the legal concept of "Fighting Words". This covers things like inciting to riot, or other illegal acts. The Supreme Court has issued many rulings on this. These are the rulings that allow Nazis to stroll through a jewish neighborhood, while under police protection. This area of law is part of free speech rights, and basically knocks down the idea that you can be arrested for incitement to an illegal act. IANAL. A search for the phrase will turn up many referances.
People can buy instruments of violence in the US. But tread on someone's imagined profits, and watch out. Even if you are just speaking, or selling.
There could be a tremendous constitutional legal issue tied up with this. I hope the DCMA gets nailed.
Re:Logical Flaw in Prosecution (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is something which US corporate interests would not want to happen...
In other news, Dmitry fastracked for Green Card (Score:3, Funny)
Pictures from Rally (Score:5, Informative)
Observations from the courtroom (Score:5, Informative)
Sklyarov was handcuffed and wearing a fetching orange T-shirt from the Santa Clara County Main Jail collection.
The proceeding itself was mostly dull and could just as easily have been done over the phone. No controversy or disagreement. The judge seemed to just want to get the whole thing over with as routinely as possible. The only additional information he asked for was some assurance that Dmitry's immigration status would not interfere with the trial proceedings. And while the papers are reporting that the U.S. attorney is still holding Sklyarov's passport, he did make clear that it would be handed over to the court at their discretion.
The next court appearance is scheduled for August 23, so Dmitry must be indicted within that time for the case to go forward.
After the hearing was over, nine tenths of the people left the room, and the whole proceeding only took about twenty minutes.
The REAL individuals responsible... (Score:5, Informative)
These people made a PERSONAL decision to prosecute Sklyarov, and it was their INDIVIDUAL decision to cry foul under the DMCA.
We have their names from the criminal complaint document, why hasn't anyone in the media contacted them?
The individuals responsible:
Kevin Nathanson - eBooks Group Product manager, complainant to the FBI.
Daryl Spano - Adobe "Anti-piracy" investigator, also complainant to the FBI.
Tom Diaz - Senior Engineering Manager for eBook
Daniel J O'Connell - FBI agent who filed the complaint.
The media needs to put the spotlight on these I N D I V I D U A L S who are personally responsible for Sklyarov's situation.
Re:Leave Law Enforcement out of it. (Score:3, Insightful)
your attitude seems to me that the penalty for vandalism and assault ought to be death. Not only death but death without a jury, a trial, a lawyer, a sentence. No chance at appeals or the opportunity to call witnesses or defend yourself. In your eyes if a person commits vandalism then he or she ought to be summarily executed by any police officer who happens to be at the scene.
Unfortunately there are plenty of people like you in this world and that's why brutal opression exists all over the planet.
Re:Leave Law Enforcement out of it. (Score:4, Insightful)
The police SHOULD enforce even laws they think are stupid*; that is the only way the stupid laws can be corrected. Otherwise the public and congress never get any feedback that the law isn't working right. So they just go on and make more bad laws; which the police would then edit as they see fit, etc., etc. and so forth. Eventually almost everything would be illegal and the police would just arrest people they didn't like.
I realize that the police and DAs are human, and they are going to learn from The Courts which cases have enough merit to likely get a conviction and which ones aren't worth their time. I understand that they will have to make those kind of decisions at some level. But I'd rather the police err on the side of being automatons than have them err on the side of being "street judges". Let the real judges and the jurors be the ones to decide which laws are unconstitutional. Let the Governors and the President decide who should get pardons. Let the public get enraged and call their congressmen when bad or stupid laws cause good people to be arrested. That is the way the process is designed to work; that is where the checks and balances are; those are the people who should be making those decisions. That way bad laws get refined into good ones.
Don't get mad at the FBI for doing their job when they do it right; they have been dropping the ball enough lately that you have plenty of incidents where agents did their job poorly that you can get mad about instead.
*In the town I grew up in, it was illegal for women to wear pants. Of course they did; and didn't get arrested. The law was part of some old "blue laws" that everyone (including the police) thought were archaic. Ideally I'd like to see some city councilwoman arrested for wearing pants; then the law would get changed and the case would almost certainly be thrown out or she'd get a pardon or some such. As long as the laws are ignored they will stay on the books. And every kid who reads about them in school and laughs has their respect for other laws diminished. Worse, every time a policeman knows about such laws and chooses to ignore them, he (and really the rest of society as well) get conditioned to the idea that the police get to choose what laws they want to enforce.
Parent
My View of the Day (Score:5, Insightful)
I almost didn't go to this hearing. I thought to myself, "What's the point? The deck is stacked against me, the media will spin its own story regardless of the facts or what the EFF has to say, and we'll all be ignored, anyway." At the last minute, I decided that I had to go. I didn't want to, I had to. Though mine may be the proverbial voice in the wilderness, as an ethical software engineer of almost 25 years, I couldn't let this transgression against everything I hold dear go unanswered.
I dressed up in uncharacteristically formal attire, in the event I was asked for an on-camera interview, and drove to downtown San Jose, arriving at about 09:45, and walked to the "Snake" at the end of Caesar de Chavez Park. There were about two dozen people there, most of them carrying hand-made pickets, including a former colleague, who coincidentally also happens to be a Russian named Dmitriy. Also milling through the group were a few media representatives (I saw units from KGO, KPIX, and TechTV).
I didn't see any obvious representatives from the EFF there (though I was asked several times if I myself was a representative). Things seemed a shade disorganized to me. The march toward the Federal building one block away was supposed to start at 10:00. By 10:10, no one was moving, so I walked down myself to make sure I got a seat in the courtroom for the bail hearing which was to take place at 11:00.
I arrived at the Federal courthouse, and made my way through the security gauntlet. (You remember that scene in The Matrix where Keanu Reeves shows up in the lobby with all those neatly-dressed security guards? It was a lot like that. Seven Marshalls stood nearby as they X-rayed my mini-MagLite three times.) Finally convinced I was harmless, I went up to the fourth floor to Judge Infante's courtroom and waited to enter.
There, I met some more reporters from TechTV and the LA Times. Again, I was asked if I was from the EFF.
"No, I'm a software engineer," I said.
"Oh, an actual real person!", said one of the reporters. I got asked why I was there, and tried to explain my concerns. I don't know how well I succeeded.
While waiting, the rest of the protest group arrived at the front of the Federal building. We could see them from the windows of the waiting area. Not too long after, the corridor began to fill up with spectators awaiting admittance to the courtroom.
I managed to buttonhole the LA Times reporter, and tried again to explain the issues as I saw them. I related this case to the DVD CCA debacle, which the EFF is still fighting on both coasts. I felt I was actually beginning to help him understand, when our conversation was cut short when the courtroom doors opened and we were allowed in.
After inquiring with the Marshall what the rules were (laptops okay, cellphones bad), I pulled out my laptop and started making a few notes. While sitting there, I picked up a fragment of a conversation between the Marshall and a spectator who walked in.
"Hey, aren't you on the wrong floor?" asked the Marshall.
"Yeah, but this looked really interesting," said the gentleman.
I didn't get his name, but it turned out that he's a bankruptcy lawyer who was also a computer programmer back in 1963. He saw the hearing listed on the court calendar, and stopped by to watch. We chatted a bit about recording devices and court stenography methods.
At 10:55, Dmitry entered the courtroom with another man, Juan Valencia Rowa (sp?), who was under indictment for a drug and parole violation. Both were handcuffed, dressed in freeway-cone-orange scrubs. By the time court was in session at 11:00 sharp, the spectators' gallery was filled.
Judge Infante banged court into session. It was immediately apparent that this man worked strictly by the book. He was formal and precise, almost to the point of stuffiness. The first case called was Dmitry's. Counsels for the defense and prosecution introduced themselves, and Judge Infante read the summary of the government's criminal charges aloud to Dmitry. Standing next to Dmitry was a Russian translator (identity unknown).
Infante then asked for motions from counsels concerning bail. The government prosecutor stated that they considered Sklyarov a flight risk, since he is a Russian national and has nothing tying him to this area. Nevertheless, a deal had apparently been worked out whereby the government was willing to allow him go free, provided the following conditions were met:
Defense counsel, in support of this, presented character references from Dmitry's professors in Russia, as well as a letter from the Russian Consul. The Judge accepted this arrangement on its face, and ordered exactly those conditions be imposed on Dmitry for his release.
The Judge expressed a concern that the US Department of Immigration might present complications. Dmitry is here on a travel visa. When that visa expires, Dmitry could theoretically be arrested again for violating immigration laws. Judge Infante inquired if Immigration was okay with Dmitry's extended stay. Defense counsel replied that arrangements were not yet finalized, but were underway.
Defense counsel then announced that a custodian for Dmitry was available immediately. Sergei Osokine of Cupertino then stepped forward and introduced himself to the court. Judge Infante informed Osokine that he was vouching for Sklyarov's promise to appear, that he was to inform the court immediately if he became aware of Sklyarov's flight or intent to fly, and could himself become liable for the bail sum should Sklyarov disappear. Osokine indicated he understood and agreed to all this.
Defense counsel then announced that the bail sum was also available immediately, in cash, paid by his employer. Dmitry was then uncuffed, and brought to the center of the courtroom to sign the papers indicating the conditions of his release. The date was also set for the preliminary hearing: 09:00, 23 August 2001. Having forgotten to do so earlier, the Judge then informed Dmitry of the maximum penalty for his alleged crime: $500,000.00 and five years in prison. Once everything was signed, Judge Infante ordered Dmitry's release upon payment of bail to the court clerk, and moved on to the next case. The spectators' gallery emptied almost immediately. The entire process took about twenty minutes.
Outside, an actual representative of the EFF :-) stood before a camera claiming victory in this round of the dispute. Defense counsel, in a different interview, also said he was pleased with Dmitry's release, but that there was still a long way to go before a final resolution.
I stood around with Dan Kaminsky and helped answer questions from a reporter from Reuters wire service. Dan and I can get a bit animated about these issues, and I fear we ranted a bit. Hopefully the reporter wasn't put off by it.
What I did find off-putting were the chants that suddenly broke out from the picketers (who had moved to the other side of the courthouse). "What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! Hey-hey, ho-ho, DMCA's got to go," etc. I know I have absolutely no practical experience in social agitation for political change, so please accept it as my woefully uneducated personal opinion that I see this sort of thing as infantile. It is not effective or witty, it is lame. It makes you look like brainless, uncreative drones on television, and people will tune you right out. Please think of something different.
After the Reuters reporter left, we answered a few more questions from the reporter from WiReD News, then I left for an appointment at 13:00. On the way to my car, I bumped into Brad Templeton, president of the EFF, who hinted that you may expect to see some new fundraising events in the not-too-distant future.
Why do I give a damn about this? When I first touched a computer at age 12, I saw it as the ultimate tool of creative expression. Theoretically, there was nothing you couldn't do with these machines, no idea that could not be expressed in a myriad of ways. In that instant, I immediately knew that this was what I would be doing for the rest of my life. Not everyone gets the chance to spend their life doing what they love, and I value very highly my good fortune of my vocation also being my dearest hobby.
One of the reasons I've gotten nice jobs in the Valley is because I'm fairly good at what I do. Apart from my enthusiasm, one of the primary ways I got so good was by taking apart things other people did, seeing how they worked, and using those discoveries to build new ideas. I even described my discoveries to others, in the hopes they would get new ideas, too.
In other words, I built much of my professional career doing exactly what Dmitry Sklyarov did.
When the Judge read the charges to Dmitry -- "trafficking in a device to circumvent a technological measure that protects a copyright" -- I nearly became nauseous. There is not so much separating me from Dmitry. I have often thought about -- and perhas will one day -- writing a display hack that takes whatever DVD is in your drive, wraps the movie imagery on to an OpenGL sphere, and bounces it around the screen ("Boing 2001", if you will). To do that, I would have to use the DeCSS code fragment published by Jon Johansen. And doing so would make me a "criminal," a threat to the State and public safety, just like Dmitry.
In a brief flash, I saw myself up there, humiliated, in a hostile place where no one knows me, no one understands what I do -- nor do they care -- answering terrifyingly punitive criminal charges for doing nothing more than what I have loved doing all my life.
I am Dmitry Sklyarov. What the hell am I supposed to do now?
Schwab
Re:The feds must be really ptroud... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Doing your job (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:The feds must be really ptroud... (Score:4, Informative)
Where have you been for the past forever? Dyema' broke no law, just as you're breaking no law by getting drunk off your ass in your own home, provided you're allowed to purchase alcohol in your area, even though there are countries where being intoxicated past a certain point is illegal. A 19 year old in France who buys a beer is breaking no law, and neither is the man or woman selling it to him. Sure, over here the legal drinking age is 21, and over here we have a DMCA also. But Dyema' didn't break the DMCA while he was over here. He did actions in russia, previous to his ever having come to the U.S., that had he done them here, would have been illegal. The speech he gave is protected in a specific exception clause in the DMCA, which allows unlimited discussion of cryptography, as long as its application is not sold to break specific copyrighted software.
However unethical the DMCA may be, Dyema' did not break it.
However unethical underage drinking laws may be, then my 19 year old friend Ja'nos did not break them when he was over here mixing drinks, even if he had drunk alcohol in Hungary at the age of 18 before he ever came here! (Which is the legal drinking age over there).
Dyema did not break Russian or U.S. laws while in Russia. Dyema did not break Russian or U.S. laws while in America. Therefore, he is not a good test case to establish a precedent against the DMCA, which is an unethical law. A good precedent would be someone who actually broke it.
Duh.
Where have you been?
Search Skylarov on the slashdot front page and read the +5 insightful comments on any one of the many resulting slashdot stories. We've established this thoroughly. How can you still think that Skylarov broke the DMCA?
I assume an underage person is allowed to mix drinks, because I know someone so employed.
Parent
Re:The feds must be really ptroud... (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:is $50000 bail low? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:is $50000 bail low? (Score:5, Informative)
I personally wouldn't consider this a slap in the face of the FBI, but perhaps a slap in the face of the DMCA. Clearly the US Atty. intends to prosecute, but I suspect that John Ashcroft not exactly enthusiastic to prosecute Sklyarov. If we keep up the political pressure on Ashcroft, we may indeed stop this prosecution altogether.
So, let's step up the pressure. Call John Ashcroft (the US Attourney General) at 202-353-1555 and let him know that you think Sklyarov's prosecution under DMCA is unjust.
Parent
Re:California? (Score:3, Offtopic)
California: Vast, beatiful scenery
Jail: 4x6 cell, concrete
California: Sunshine
Jail: Flourescent track lights, or perhaps a bare bulb. (Note: I don't speak from experience here, but from such great documentaries as "The Shawshank Redemption"", "Escape From Alcatraz", and "Sleepers")
California: I'm hungry, I haven't eaten in like 8 hours, this sucks.
Jail: This constantly being beaten by corrupt guards sucks.
California: Bikini (somewhat)clad women, everyone stares at hungrily.
Jail: You (*shudder*).
shaddup
Re:Smuggle Him Out Before They Lock Him up Again (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Fleeing Juristiction Not The Answer!!! (Score:3, Offtopic)
There are two common ways to change the laws in most places in the US and at the Federal level.
- Get the lawmakers to amend the law
- Have a high court over turn the law
I would rather have courts review the law, all the way up to the Supreme Court, than to have lawmakers muck around with this issue any more. If Sklyarov flees how can the issue be pushed? It is a risk that unfortunately only Sklyarov can face but if not him who and when? Letting this horribly bad law sit on the books any longer is as a bad an idea as telling Sklyarov to run for it.
Re:Impressive (Score:4, Funny)
> I can hardly believe this; are they hiring???
Why, you planning on getting arrested?
Parent
Re:How? (Score:3, Insightful)